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When conditions are conducive to walking, the ideal distance is within a quarter of a mile, after that the quality of distance goes down hill until about 30 minutes. Once walking distance is longer than 30 minutes, then it basically at zero with the amount of people who would consider that walkable.
No it is very much a point. This is why people use cars. Not only do you have a wider area from which you can purchase goods, you can carry more. This becomes more important the more people there are in the house hold(i.e. kids).
Otter said they moved to a walkable neighborhood, then cited the inpracticality of carrying a month's worth of groceries on foot as one of the failings of said neighborhood. But you're cherry-picking my words. Here's the rest of what I said:
Quote:
walkability doesn't preclude there being a Safeway nearby, nor does it preclude driving your car to said Safeway or, further, to a Costco.
The equation isn't "walkable ergo must walk," it's "walkable therefore can walk."
Earlier, in the post to which I responded, you also said "without a car" as if, again, "walkable ergo must walk," as if living in a walkable neighborhood prevented car ownership.
It is beside the point that food can last a long time because walkability does not necessitate doing everything by foot, so if we stick to what actually makes sense, then we never need talk about the practicality of shopping once a month for groceries. Walkability does not prevent you from going to Costco, so talking about the value of going to Costco is beside the point.
It's not fictional; common in parts of Manhattan. Paris. And some other very dense cities outside of the US. One regular poster here (BajanYankee; though hasn't been on the Urban Planning forum in a while) says one of the reasons he likes Paris more so than other large cities (including NYC) because it's so mixed use
Exactly. Parts of Manhattan. Which is a very tiny fraction of the total land area of the US. What the poster described was a definition of mixed use so constrained, so strict that it was almost a caricature of mixed use and only described a part of one percent of all places in the US. And my point was that's not a normal understanding of mixed used.
One nice thing about a dense, walkable area is that you can easily get groceries at corner stores as well as larger ones. They can be so quick (and no lines often) that it simply turns a seven-minute on-foot commute into a 12-minute commute. That's easy a couple times a week.
When conditions are conducive to walking, the ideal distance is within a quarter of a mile, after that the quality of distance goes down hill until about 30 minutes. Once walking distance is longer than 30 minutes, then it basically at zero with the amount of people who would consider that walkable.
I walked to High School, about 2 miles (3 km) each way. My dad walked about a mile to the train station when he was working.
I walked to High School, about 2 miles (3 km) each way. My dad walked about a mile to the train station when he was working.
The light rail stop that I use by my house is just over a half a mile from me. Though I wish a grocery store of some sort would open up in the little downtown I live by because it would be nice to be able to walk to it whenever I wanted.
It's hilarious to me how many people still don't get the purpose of this thread. Great, most people prefer driving to the grocery store rather than walking. How does that mean walkability isn't realistic? It doesn't because a) you can still get a lot done via walking if you live in a certain type of neighborhood, but still own a car and save it for trips like to the grocery store and b) even if most prefer driving to the grocery store, most is not the same as all and for some people it's not worth getting a car just for the sake of groceries.
It's hilarious to me how many people still don't get the purpose of this thread. Great, most people prefer driving to the grocery store rather than walking. How does that mean walkability isn't realistic? It doesn't because a) you can still get a lot done via walking if you live in a certain type of neighborhood, but still own a car and save it for trips like to the grocery store and b) even if most prefer driving to the grocery store, most is not the same as all and for some people it's not worth getting a car just for the sake of groceries.
Almost every family member and friend I have can't fathom life without a car. I live in a hyper-walkable neighborhood (97 walkscore) and haven't missed my car since I moved here. For one off trips (e.g. the vet, going out of town, needing to load stuff from Home Depot, etc.) I use Zip Car, a rental or a taxi. Those are rare trips. I have a grocery store two blocks away, as well as many smaller markets, bakeries, and then Philly's Italian Market just a half mile away. I just grab groceries when it makes sense. Sometimes on the way home, sometimes early in the morning, whenever. But I still get questioned by everyone in my family when I see them. Questions like "what do you do if it's raining?", "what about if it's 9pm at night and you need something?", "what if you're sick?".
Multi-generational car ownership has made life without a car so unfathomable that I think people have a hard time believing that walking and car ownership can coincide. Although I suppose that's not too unbelievable seeing as so much of America is built completely around car ownership, making walkability impossible in most places.
Almost every family member and friend I have can't fathom life without a car.
Didn't some of them have no car as college students? Or is that a different situation since you're life is more tied to campus and less need to get out? Though I met someone from Florida who said most if not nearly all college students owned cars. She had just moved to NYC, not driving was the biggest cultural adjustment for her. As well as the lack of ubiquitous A/C (her apartment appeared to hovering around 80°F on a warmer than average August day). One difference a non-car owning friend made while visiting car owners: when going to say a restaurant, you can leave stuff with you in a car. If going around by foot, you have to carry everything with you.
Didn't some of them have no car as college students? Or is that a different situation since you're life is more tied to campus and less need to get out? Though I met someone from Florida who said most if not nearly all college students owned cars. She had just moved to NYC, not driving was the biggest cultural adjustment for her. As well as the lack of ubiquitous A/C (her apartment appeared to hovering around 80°F on a warmer than average August day). One difference a non-car owning friend made while visiting car owners: when going to say a restaurant, you can leave stuff with you in a car. If going around by foot, you have to carry everything with you.
I only have a couple of cousins who went through college. One likes urban life and uses a car very little, so he doesn't have the questions. The other cousin went to college and lived off-campus and drove to school every day. I do have one aunt who lived in NYC when I was a kid, but that was 25 years ago. She doesn't ask the questions obviously.
I've been car-lite for about 6 years and car-free for nearing 2. The first six months of car-free life, my parents watched and surveyed my experience like it was science experiment. They expected me to get frustrated, but now when they visit, they love all the walking too. That debunked a lot of myths for them, like "there are no grocery stores in the city" and "you shouldn't go out after dark". In fact, my father keeps raving that he wants a train put in where he lives (he loves the subway), but he lives in the country.
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