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Old 06-15-2017, 07:17 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Don't they have fire escapes on buildings in the UK?

And who provides only one staircase to a 24-story building? It was cheap government housing for low-income families, I gathered from the article.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:03 PM
 
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Uh oh here come the nanny staters who want to ban anything they see as risky...
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward234 View Post
Are you suggesting tall buildings shouldn't exist in the world? Because if every building was only one story, it would mean the total destruction of the natural environment, mass starvation, inaccessible basic services, etc.

The answer is stricter fire codes and better enforcement of regulations intended to prevent something like this from happening. It's not allowing developers or property managers to cut corners so they can save a buck. You'd be hard-pressed to find any residential or commercial high-rise building that meets currently accepted fire-safety building standards that has burned down. Sure, it's not technically impossible, but it's very unlikely - much more unlikely in fact than a new single-family home burning down.

As for earthquakes, all new buildings in earthquake-prone areas are required to be resilient to major seismic activity. In places like Seattle, older buildings - particularly those made of brick - are at the greatest risk. These tend not to be the tallest or densest buildings by any stretch but those that have not been retrofitted do pose a very scary threat in case of a big earthquake.
No that is not what I said. And as IC_Delight said, there's always a "new and improved" fire code. You know, unlike a lot of people here on CD, I don't claim to have all the answers. But this was not good. At least 17 dead, with possibly more to come.
London fire latest: Grief gives way to anger as Grenfell tower residents demand answers over string of failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
People die in fires from wood-framed houses yet they're not banned. Building codes + smoke alarms alleviate much of the danger. A high rise can be designed so that the fire spreads slowly and containable, and that it's easy to evacuated. High rise fires resulting in more than a few deaths aren't particularly frequent, considering how many high rises exist around the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyscraper_fire



Lots of other cities have as many high rises as Vancouver; presumably Vancouver would think it would as often as other developed world cities?
I didn't suggest banning high rises. But very tall buildings do seem to be "unavoidably unsafe".

Regardless of what you said about Vancouver, they are kidding themselves if they think it can't happen there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
Uh oh here come the nanny staters who want to ban anything they see as risky...
Yeah, 17+ deaths, no biggie. Didn't Scrooge say something about getting rid of the "surplus population" in "A Christmas Carol"?
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
No that is not what I said. And as IC_Delight said, there's always a "new and improved" fire code. You know, unlike a lot of people here on CD, I don't claim to have all the answers. But this was not good. At least 17 dead, with possibly more to come.
London fire latest: Grief gives way to anger as Grenfell tower residents demand answers over string of failures



I didn't suggest banning high rises. But very tall buildings do seem to be "unavoidably unsafe".

Regardless of what you said about Vancouver, they are kidding themselves if they think it can't happen there.



Yeah, 17+ deaths, no biggie. Didn't Scrooge say something about getting rid of the "surplus population" in "A Christmas Carol"?
Any death by fire is horribly tragic, that's not the point.

You seem to hear about far more people dying in house fires like this: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.orego..._house_fir.amp

Than you do in mid- and high-rise building fires.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:45 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post

I didn't suggest banning high rises. But very tall buildings do seem to be "unavoidably unsafe".
They don't seem especially so. Houses have fires, too.

Quote:
Regardless of what you said about Vancouver, they are kidding themselves if they think it can't happen there.
New York City is at least as high-rise heavy as Vancouver, hasn't had a major high-rise [well with one well known non-accidental exception] fire in decades. The city does require sprinklers among other things. I assume Vancouver does, too. I've been in a mid-rise college dorm, it had those, too:

https://cooperator.com/article/what-...-know/full#cut
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:02 PM
 
Location: 404
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In a blackout, anything past the 4th floor is a challenge. The rising cost and decreasing availability of electricity will price taller buildings out of existence, if they don't fall down first.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,810,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
They don't seem especially so. Houses have fires, too.



New York City is at least as high-rise heavy as Vancouver, hasn't had a major high-rise [well with one well known non-accidental exception] fire in decades. The city does require sprinklers among other things. I assume Vancouver does, too. I've been in a mid-rise college dorm, it had those, too:

https://cooperator.com/article/what-...-know/full#cut
None of which means it could never happen. When did London last have such a fire?
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:37 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,983 posts, read 53,514,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
None of which means it could never happen. When did London last have such a fire?
I never argued it could never happen...
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:18 PM
 
10,224 posts, read 19,220,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
In a blackout, anything past the 4th floor is a challenge. The rising cost and decreasing availability of electricity will price taller buildings out of existence, if they don't fall down first.
Good username, because electricity costs are reasonably flat, there's no decreasing availability, and taller buildings aren't really falling down.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,567,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I went to a child abuse training at my church. We had to watch a video where the presenter said that every church that had a problem thought they would never have a problem. That's just human nature.

I think someone has something to answer for regarding all these deaths. People were trying to jump out of high floor windows. Yes, I think that's a problem.
A problem yes, in places where building codes are sub standard, or not enforced. Do you seriously believe the conversation about this tragedy will be about banning high-rises or about building codes?
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