One reason Americans can't have quaint, walk-up apartments like Europeans do (metro, solutions)

[46H]

The missing part of the video is profit motive. A floor can be configured with all 2/3 BR units but it generally won't make as much money as the same floor configured with all studios and 1BR units.

The 2 stair requirement has some code exceptions in the US. This code might not apply in Canada.

This is from the 2021 International Building Code:
https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/NJBC2021...10-Sec1006.3.4
"1006.3.4Single exits
"A single exit or access to a single exit shall be permitted from any story or occupied roof where one of the following conditions exists:"
There are 5 conditions that are in the link that have lots of details and variations.
To roughly summarize for R2 - 3 story limit as long as the occupant load is below 10 serving that story exit with 4 unit max per story.

Also - in NYC, you can have a single means of egress from residential buildings of up to 60 ft in height as long as they're not more than 2,000 s.f. per floor, and are type I or II construction.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/NYNYCBC2022P1/chapter-10-means-of-egress/NYNYCBC2022P1-Ch10-Sec1007.1.1

There might be other state and local codes that follow the NYC example.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

Are you talking about a specific TYPE of apartment? Because what I was responding to was the sentence

The US has basically outlawed apartments in the vast majority of the country

which is demonstrably false by passing through any city or town from the largest to very small.

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

"the apartments described" is hardly a defense to the absurd extrapolated extreme that "The US has basically outlawed apartments in the vast majority of the country" as alleged by the earlier poster.

I interpreted their statement in the context of this thread, not in general. If they care, maybe they'll clarify.

How does that equate to "outlawing apartments in the vast majority of the country"

It seems your complaint has been reduced to "As a result of fire safety building codes, I can't build 4+ story multi-family residential housing without at least two stairwells". This does not translate to "outlawing apartments in the vast majority of the country". So build a 3 story apartment complex without two stairwells or a taller complex with at least two stairwells for tenant safety.

Building codes are laws. If something isn't permitted in the building code, then that something has been outlawed. I'm not familiar with the building codes in all 50 states and municipalities, and I never work on residential buildings. But generally, it's illegal to build a 4 story apartment building (3 stories in Canada) with only one stair. Watch the video for why this makes a difference.

Don't confuse me for someone who feels strongly about this issue. I mean, I'm often in favor of smaller government, when it comes to urban planning. Freedom of choice is a good thing in urban planning too, IMO. But, this revision isn't likely to cause big changes, because as is pointed out in the reply above this one, there are other factors that play a role as well, like economic viability. Maybe eight 3-bedroom units on a smaller footprint makes more economic sense than six 3-bedroom units on the same size lot, or eight units on a larger lot? (req'd to fit the second stair and extra circulation space) Maybe that extra story makes all the difference?

[considerforamoment]

Originally Posted by saibot

You meant esthetics, but that was a pretty awesome Freudian slip.

It's aesthetics though.

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

If all that "younger generation that are... embracing the simple life in condos" could magically be financially able to buy free standing houses, how many do you think would do it? A lot.

And a lot would stay. City living in an apartment - that is, in a vibrant city with decent transportation - can be absolutely awesome. I did so for decades back in Europe, didn't long for a house at all. Why would I? 2-3 grocery stores within walking distance, culture & nightlife a short bicycle or bus ride away, balcony for morning coffee, parks for after-work socializing - all without mowing lawns, weeding flower beds and painting woodwork. And without having to start a car, park a car and plan for designated drivers.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by mhays25

Apartments are not allowed in most urban areas of the US. Most areas only allow houses.


This isn't debatable.

You haven't been to Houston, have you? it's an excellent example of how not having formal zoning produces a better city.

[Gerania]

Originally Posted by WRM20

You haven't been to Houston, have you? it's an excellent example of how not having formal zoning produces a better city.

He apparently hasn't been anywhere. I've never been to a city that had no apartments. Even small towns have apartments over shops.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by Gerania

He apparently hasn't been anywhere. I've never been to a city that had no apartments. Even small towns have apartments over shops.

I routinely pass through a "small town" - maybe we'd call it a "large town" in reality - of 12,000, which is not a suburb of a city, but a free standing town. Several small apartment complexes are clearly visible, from the modest to the skanky, but there they are. There are also a decent supply of "garage apartment" and "granny houses" for rent.

I also routinely pass through a "hamlet" of about 200. Now THERE is a place where there aren't any apartments; but on the other hand there's no zoning, so if you wanted to build apartments you'd be allowed; but you wouldn't make any money.

The small city of 230,000 I routinely pass through is loaded with apartments from the pretty nice to the skanky.

Now IF the poster above had said "apartments of a specific narrowly defined design and construction are forbidden in many urban areas of the US due to fire codes", that might well be accurate. Not particularly meaningful, but accurate.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by HodgePodge

I find that the older generation here love their houses... backyard and everything proper to bring up your young family.

It's the younger generation that are more embracing the simple life in condo's. They tend to travel more. Go out more for entertainment and food. So a small apartment with low to zero maintenance is perfect for them. Assuming they don't have more than 1 or 2 children or dogs etc.

Here a lot of the younger folks have no choice but to buy condo's. They are cheaper to purchase. And new ones are springing up on every available corner block. Whereas houses are rarer and new houses are only available on the fringes of the city.

I can't imagine having to get a mortgage for $1,000,000 for a small starter home (house).

This is what's happening in our neighborhood where the older, original owners from 1980+- are moving out as they retire. These homes selling for $800k a couple of years ago and now $1.3 million are being bought by millennials that have 2-3 kids and were in apartments or condos before. In addition to more space, they are looking for the low crime and good schools found in the suburbs. Of the 4 most recent buyers 3 work at Amazon, and moved here from Seattle, the 4th works at Microsoft and had a condo in Redmond. One has 1 kid, the other 3 all have 2, the youngest just started kindergarten.

[saibot]

Originally Posted by considerforamoment

It's aesthetics though.

Both spellings are acceptable in the US, where we tend to drop the fussy "ae" from words like paediatrician and aesthetics.

On topic, the idea that younger adults really prefer fuss-free city apartment living makes my own children (21 and 24) laugh painfully. They say that they and most of their friends aspire to own SFHs, but especially where we live (SoCal), that seems impossible.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by saibot

On topic, the idea that younger adults really prefer fuss-free city apartment living makes my own children (21 and 24) laugh painfully. They say that they and most of their friends aspire to own SFHs, but especially where we live (SoCal), that seems impossible.

Yeah, that "fuss free city apartment living". Like when Sammy Subwoofer moves in upstairs and he's 6 foot 6 and a cousin of the building owner. Or when Debbie Dirty next door decides she's not going to wash any dishes for a couple months and her cockroaches get so overcrowded that they seek extra space in your unit. Or when the terlit upstairs overflows and sewage runs over onto your bed. Or when the building needs a new roof but the condo association "discovers" there's no money and you all get to pay a huge unplanned assesssment. Or whenever it rains the water pools up on the balcony and runs in soaking your bedroom carpet, and you've made six different maintenance calls and they just come in and shop vac the carpet and spray some air freshener. Or when the quiet pub downstairs converts into a headbanger club and sleep becomes impossible until 3 am 7 nights a week (and you're supposed to be at work, fresh and energetic, at 8). Or when the homeless decide YOUR sidewalk is the place for their next encampment. Or the twice monthly "inspection/update" that requires the maintenance men to come into your apartment, invariably letting the cat out. Or the maintenance man who's building a killer stereo system from the best components of the tenants'. Or, or, or, or....