stagnant/declining cities vs modern day boomtowns (architect, Philadelphia, Cleveland)
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I don't hate Phoenix...in fact I didn't even consider this whole thing until I read your bs rant about Boston being the worse offender when it comes to urban sprawl.
Considering the fact you live in a desert.
I saw those sources, I and others tried to explain what urban sprawl is like in Boston, you didn't seem to want to listen. Whose fault is that?
Great, Phoenix was settled on top of Native American settlements. Was their population 4 million? No, I know it wasn't. The infrastructure needed to support the tens of millions of peolple who live in a desert far exceeds the works of a native population from 500 years ago. When Phoenix was founded it had a few thousand people, in a little over a hundred years, that popualtion has centupled multiple times over. Are you telling me those same infrastructure and practices of then apply today...NO! They can't. All those retirees are not Prospectors. Yeah, the air conditioner is directly repsonsible for you being able to enjoy your lifestyle in that area. In summer when its 120 outside, try going with out it for a day...you'll be begging for a cool New England ocean breeze.
How is being well educated being an elitist? You only called me that because I wrote a lengthy vitriolic response to you, and you didn't care much for it.
Considering the fact I live in a desert? I'm not sure what that is supposed to imply; however, I've lived quite some time of my life in Chicago as well. Is that good or bad? I know the Chicago urban area sprawls as well, although not to the degree of Boston's.
The problem is that you are trying to explain away something that you shouldn't have to. So what if Boston sprawls. Just accept it and move on. Who's fault is that?
I wish you wouldn't assume that Phoenix is just made up of a bunch of retirees. Phoenix is the 5th youngest city in the U.S. I also don't hear many people complaining about the winters here while you're shoveling snow freezing your butts of in the Northeast. I suppose those fires you made before you relied on heaters and furnaces worked just as good at keeping you warm as the windcatchers, fans, and swamp coolers worked prior to air conditioning to keep others in warmer environments cooled off.
I don't remember stating that I thought being well-educated meant being an elitist. Quite the contrary. I believe there are many elitists who only believe they've been well-educated.
The comment in bold is comical. Have you ever lived in the Northeast?
The northeast has an extreme higher quality of life over southern states. There is a reason why the northeast has a higher COL, better quality of life.
That is so subjective it. I would never wanted to live in the Northeast (though I love visiting). In my opinion the sunbelt offers a much better quality of living. That doesnt make either of us wrong.
But that's the problem, people aren't looking at BOTH sides of the coin. People speculate that "so and so bust" will happen to Dallas or any other sunbelt city 50 years from now. But who's to say public transit in Sunbelt cities won't change for the better, ESPECIALLY because there making strides now. Everything is SPECULATION. All your city really needs is a diverse economy. And that'll take care of the rest.
I dont think Dallas,Houston,Atlanta are going to bust at all but 75-100 years from now when its infrastructure deteriorates, and it will- they all do-and the poorer classes of Dallas Houston multiply and the higher class move on out to the suburbs or to the next boomtown thats when all hell breaks loose.
LA's massive growth is only 75 years old and its already heavily stressed. Much older cities like Philly, Bal,Dc,NYC,Chi can tell you all about what Father Time does to aging cities. Except for the geographically gifted cities like SF,Manhattan,Sea The Poor grow and stay while the upper class moves away- at arms length from the poor.
I say Enjoy the boom its all down hill once you reach a chronological threshold.
What's truly tragic is that a town of about a 100,000 people 50 years ago grew into a city and region of 4.3million people. It effectively destroyed an entire ecosystem. Billions of gallons of water have to be diverted from somewhere to support such a population even to just provide basic needs. Food has to be trucked in from 1000s of miles (there are no farms in a desert). Rivers dammed to create artifical lakes for recreation, Rivers don't even flow to sea anymore (Im thinking of the Colorado) simply because it's so used to provide water and electricty to tens of millions of people who live in an environment where humans are not really adapted to do so. In the matter of a generation, the people who live in the southwestern US have rewritten the rules of interaction between humans and natures.
Boston may have its big box stores and large suburban houses. But it's not responsible for the displacement of an entire ecosystem.
The people in Phoenix are supposed care about this why? Are they supposed to feel bad and move to Boston?
Considering the fact I live in a desert? I'm not sure what that is supposed to imply; however, I've lived quite some time of my life in Chicago as well. Is that good or bad? I know the Chicago urban area sprawls as well, although not to the degree of Boston's.
The problem is that you are trying to explain away something that you shouldn't have to. So what if Boston sprawls. Just accept it and move on. Who's fault is that?
I wish you wouldn't assume that Phoenix is just made up of a bunch of retirees. Phoenix is the 5th youngest city in the U.S. I also don't hear many people complaining about the winters here while you're shoveling snow freezing your butts of in the Northeast. I suppose those fires you made before you relied on heaters and furnaces worked just as good at keeping you warm as the windcatchers, fans, and swamp coolers worked prior to air conditioning to keep others in warmer environments cooled off.
I don't remember stating that I thought being well-educated meant being an elitist. Quite the contrary.I believe there are many elitists who only believe they've been well-educated.
You are really adamant about Boston being a sprawling mess, aren't you. I have never denied Boston as a sprawling metropolis, it is. I know it is. I don't need some know-nothing from Arizona telling me a city and region of 8 million people sprawls to no end, when that is not as true as you wish it would be. The region is served by one of the best and largest metros in the nation and there is strict codes in place to curb frivolous construction.
In cities like LV and Phoenix built homes and developled land back in the 90s and 00s in the hopes they's be bought up for cold northeasterns except, the housing buble burst...that's totally Phoenix's fault.
Phoenix only just became the 5th largest city...so effing what? what does that have to do with anything, and Boston is the 20th largest city and growing too, so what too. Winters in Arizona...what's that like, 85 and partly cloudly? The cold is more tolerant than heat, all you do is put more clothes on, the millions upon millions of immigrants who came to the Northeast didn't need to rely on heaters to get them by the winter. When the body is hot, it is very difficult to cool done. So the 100 million northeasterners must be nuts, right? New Yorkers, Philadelphians, Washintonians, Chicagoans, Bostonians? I'll take me 4 distinct seasons any day over 120 blasting heat!!!
Steady moderate growth beats unwarranted, unbridled growth. This is why the cities of the Northeast will prosper. One day, the state of Arizona will have to pony up the cash to bring a city of a few million people into the fold of mature cities of this nation and the rest of the world.
I happen to enjoy the cheap cost of livng , and relatively free flowing roadways, and the excess infrastructure that comes with living in a city that has lost over 1/4th of its population in the past 50+ years. The only major drawbacks are the lack of jobs (other than demolition work) and the high crime, but thats why we have the suburbs. I've never been to the boomtowns of Atlanta, Houston, Pheonix etc. Obviously the econcomies are strong in these cities, which is why they are groing so fast. My question is would you rather live in a city thats filling in, or clearing out.
I like living in a "declining" city. I have a lot of infrastructure/amenities/history available to me from Youngstown's glory days, and all with very low cost of living.
In what other city could you live in a historic mansion, in a historic neighborhood, facing a 34 acre park, for less than the cost of a 3 bedroom ranch in the suburbs of a booming city?
My circumstances are more humble. I own a little old house that backs into a different park, in a modest urban neighborhood. With the tough economy, my hours at work were cut by 20%. But, because the COL is so low, I still have disposable income. I haven't even cancelled my subscription to HBO.
Do tell me why you think these cities are handleing growth better than the others?
Austin doesnt have freeway system to accomodate what it has much less good public transit. Atlanta (while I love it) is sprawling worse than any other sunbelt city (save Charlotte). I dont know enough about Raleigh to comment.
To be fair, I love Austin and Atlanta.
On the flip side of that coin, Dallas, Phoenix, and Houston are working hard and fast to develop their transit.
What are we measuring sprawl by Metro size or Metro Density? because Metro Atlanta is denser than Memphis, Nashville, OKC, New Orleans all most twice as dense as the Greater Austin Area and etc. There is no way you can say ATL is sprawling worse than any other sunbelt city by density. In fact there are only 4 metro areas that are denser than the Atlanta Area in the sunbelt region. You have to save alot more metros than just charlotte in order for Atlanta to be the worse.
If your going by MSA area size DFW and the Greater Houston areas are larger, while not being that much denser than Metro Atlanta so their sprawling are about the same.
Houston is 5,728,143 in 10,062 sq mi with 630.3/sq mi
Dallas is 6,300,006 in 9,286 sq mi with 634/sq. mi
Atlanta is 5,376,285 in 8,376 sq mi with 630/sq mi
0.3 and 4/sq mi denser, pointless but i guess
I think Texas cities are improving and expanding their transit systems more than Atlanta. On the flip side of that coin Atlanta has more New urbanism live work play projects then any of those cities. I won’t say any of those cities are handling growth better then the other but I think people fail to understand or trying to ignore! their’s a movement in sunbelt cities for creating denser neighborhoods and improve transit options. The idea that these cities growth is just sprawl and their not growing denser is just ridiculous.
The people in Phoenix are supposed care about this why? Are they supposed to feel bad and move to Boston?
Well you should care that 4.3 million people are responsible for ruining an ecosystem that CANNOT sustain such unbridled growth.
My guess is that the federal government in the near future, ie the other states, will be paying for your utilties--water, food, all sorts of stuff that will no longer be maintained by a desert climate.
The comment in bold is comical. Have you ever lived in the Northeast?
The northeast has an extreme higher quality of life over southern states. There is a reason why the northeast has a higher COL, better quality of life.
Define "higher quality of life"? Driving in dangerous snow and having to deal with frigid temperatures 4 months out of the year or having to choose between sky high housing cost over living in a hood?
The comment in bold is comical. Have you ever lived in the Northeast?
The northeast has an extreme higher quality of life over southern states. There is a reason why the northeast has a higher COL, better quality of life.
Don't think it matters. The better quality of life matters to that person and his family, not to anyone else. I'd be very happy living in Houston just like I would if I lived in Philadelphia.
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