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Yes, I know what you mean about great resources available online now. I recently discovered the full sales history including listings as well. But I have a question about how you found your home. How did you go from seeing old listings to realizing the owner was getting ready to list again? Did your realtor contact them beforehand and it hitting MLS to work something out?
Thanks,
MtnSurfer
It was Nov or Dec. I saw that the house had been previously listed all summer and pulled off the market a month or so previously without being sold. You can see this information in the price history in zillow. I asked my agent if she could look into it. She contacted the owners, found out that they were still interested in selling in the spring/summer but didn't want to list or show the house in the meantime because of the hassle. We ended up working out a deal that worked for everyone. They had previously listed through some kind of discount online service and so there was no listing agent. I'm not sure what my agent worked out with the owners vis-a-vis commission. We didn't pay her anything. But it all worked out to everyone's satisfaction.
So. I found the house. My agent did the contact work.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I just contact the sellers direct, and use a title company for the transaction (which you have to use anyway).
I prefer to negotiate and close FAST.
Often have done seller finance / bridge loans, and only once had a seller insist on using their realtor friends (That cost seller about $40k as the realtor priced it far lower than I was willing to pay + 8% commission)
If there are any complications / risks I hire a RE attorney (<$1000). (Usually only on commercial properties that have been exposed to soil contamination / mixed uses). Sometimes I will have a Land Use Attorney review the survey / deed if it is really complicated. (various owners / liens / boundary exceptions / easements / road and well agreements)
I just contact the sellers direct, and use a title company for the transaction (which you have to use anyway).
I prefer to negotiate and close FAST.
Often have done seller finance / bridge loans, and only once had a seller insist on using their realtor friends (That cost seller about $40k as the realtor priced it far lower than I was willing to pay + 8% commission)
If there are any complications / risks I hire a RE attorney (<$1000). (Usually only on commercial properties that have been exposed to soil contamination / mixed uses). Sometimes I will have a Land Use Attorney review the survey / deed if it is really complicated. (various owners / liens / boundary exceptions / easements / road and well agreements)
Stealth,
I really don't see how that would work from out of state. How would you go about 'just contacting the seller' directly? With a cold call after searching online for their personal information (name, phone number, email)? Maybe if you live in the area and know someone who knows them or you go knock on their door. Then its at least a cold call in person or better yet a warm transfer/referral from someone they know. I just can't picture myself knocking on a stranger's door and asking them if they want to sell me their house.
The only way I could see it working remotely is if like in texasdiver's case, they had listed it earlier that year, perhaps. Then I guess you could try to contact the listing agent directly if stated.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 12-17-2018 at 08:23 PM..
It was Nov or Dec. I saw that the house had been previously listed all summer and pulled off the market a month or so previously without being sold. You can see this information in the price history in zillow. I asked my agent if she could look into it. She contacted the owners, found out that they were still interested in selling in the spring/summer but didn't want to list or show the house in the meantime because of the hassle. We ended up working out a deal that worked for everyone. They had previously listed through some kind of discount online service and so there was no listing agent. I'm not sure what my agent worked out with the owners vis-a-vis commission. We didn't pay her anything. But it all worked out to everyone's satisfaction.
So. I found the house. My agent did the contact work.
I see. That's where a good agent can really help when searching from out of state. But you obviously played a very 'active' role in finding your home. Good job connecting the dots and seeing an opportunity where others didn't. I guess I've got my work cut out for me.
When we were looking for a home in Clark County 3 1/2 years ago, we had a realtor in WA and one on OR looking for us. We actually found our home in Ridgefield ourselves, then told our WA realtor we were infested. He found out the details, arranged the showing, etc. once we decided it was the house for us, everything else was done remotely from Wenatchee. While we not in a hurry to find a new home, we were catapulted into rush mode when we got a full price cash offer for our Wenatchee house 4 days after it went on the market. I don’t know how we would have survived without trusted realtors on both ends.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer
Stealth,
I really don't see how that would work from out of state. How would you go about 'just contacting the seller' directly? With a cold call after searching online for their personal information (name, phone number, email)? Maybe if you live in the area and know someone who knows them or you go knock on their door. Then its at least a cold call in person or better yet a warm transfer/referral from someone they know. I just can't picture myself knocking on a stranger's door and asking them if they want to sell me their house.
The only way I could see it working remotely is if like in texasdiver's case, they had listed it earlier that year, perhaps. Then I guess you could try to contact the listing agent directly if stated.
Derek
well... I live and work overseas 50%+ of the time (for last 30+ yrs) and have done many real property transactions from Out of State and a few from overseas. (Bought and Closed on a TX prop from Thailand (in < 1 week)). Seller was VERY happy to get wired funds, as previous 'cash' buyer had shown up with an 'Agent' and seller chased them off the property with a gun. So She called me in Thailand (3am), and I had Earnest money agreement drafted and sent to Title Company and funds wired within 24 hrs / done deal. Buyer was very happy. (Residential props are dead simple)
I don't do 'agents' unless they are a value add, or the seller insists (They GREATLY slow down the process).
I have done quite a few 'cold calls' and NEVER met the seller (They are often Out of State too).
Statistically, I note 60%+ of my sellers have been Out of state owners and I have never met them
I use phone, email, wire transfers. The Title Company does all the leg work. For a few hundred dollars...
The agent(s) does nothing but complicate transaction (for me) and add many weeks and 10x the expense of an excellent and valuable Land Use Attorney. (who can actually provide useful information and legal advice)
Each to his own... many people use agents to feel 'comfortable'.
Agents don't give me Warm Fuzzies, so I go without (YMMV). In fact, I will leave a scheduled closing without signing, if an agent happens to show up. (They have no value add during legal portion of transaction, and I find them a disruption).
Do what best fits you. Agents have to eat too. Use one, if that is your comfort level.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would venture to bet that 95% of the properties that Steath looks at are unconventional in some way. Rural properties, shop buildings, tear down/fixer uppers. At least from the description.
For the ordinary family looking for an ordinary suburban home in an extablished subdivision I think you will find that almost all of them get listed traditionally through the MLS. The sellers might be using discount online brokerages or something like that. But for the most part, people who are actually interested in selling go the traditional route. You see a few FSBO listings but they often convert to a traditional listing after a few months, especially when the market itsn't super tight. So it is extremely hard to avoid using an agent in the buying process as you won't be able to even look at 95% of what is on the market.
In a place like Camas, most houses in traditional subdivions are not rentals, they are owner occupied. Meaning that the owners have to have a pretty serious reason to sell, and aren't just going to be talked into it on the fly. That's a different situation from someone who happens to own some acres in the county with a shed on it that they aren't making use of anyway. You can do detective work and possibly find someone who does want to sell by looking at listing history, especially if you are shopping during the off season. But that is luck, you can't depend on it as a strategy.
I'm just guessing that 95% of the people reading this forum and looking to relocate to this area are looking for ordinary suburban houses in ordinary subdivsions that meet their criteria for price, size, school district, etc. They aren't looking to do some deal where they can convert some rural lot with a shop and double-wide into their dream compound.
well... I live and work overseas 50%+ of the time (for last 30+ yrs) and have done many real property transactions from Out of State and a few from overseas. (Bought and Closed on a TX prop from Thailand (in < 1 week)). Seller was VERY happy to get wired funds, as previous 'cash' buyer had shown up with an 'Agent' and seller chased them off the property with a gun. So She called me in Thailand (3am), and I had Earnest money agreement drafted and sent to Title Company and funds wired within 24 hrs / done deal. Buyer was very happy. (Residential props are dead simple)
I don't do 'agents' unless they are a value add, or the seller insists (They GREATLY slow down the process).
I have done quite a few 'cold calls' and NEVER met the seller (They are often Out of State too).
Statistically, I note 60%+ of my sellers have been Out of state owners and I have never met them
I use phone, email, wire transfers. The Title Company does all the leg work. For a few hundred dollars...
The agent(s) does nothing but complicate transaction (for me) and add many weeks and 10x the expense of an excellent and valuable Land Use Attorney. (who can actually provide useful information and legal advice)
Each to his own... many people use agents to feel 'comfortable'.
Agents don't give me Warm Fuzzies, so I go without (YMMV). In fact, I will leave a scheduled closing without signing, if an agent happens to show up. (They have no value add during legal portion of transaction, and I find them a disruption).
Do what best fits you. Agents have to eat too. Use one, if that is your comfort level.
Yes, I understand. It's part of what makes Stealth, Stealth. And for some that approach may also work depending on what type property they are looking for.
I remember you mentioned not using agents before. But I always imagined you meeting these folks at some local business gathering, moose lodge or maybe one of those 'I know a guy that knows a guy' sort of deals. I recall you being very active in the community.
So for your out of state/country RE deals, can you give one example of how you actually contacted the owner? Was it through knowing someone they knew? And to Texasdiver's point, was it ever for a more standard suburban, non-distressed, SFR like we're looking for? I'm curious how that could work.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,700 posts, read 58,012,579 times
Reputation: 46172
I have bought LOTS of conventional properties, but I am not comfortable with agents (Have seen them lose lots of deals)
Just like hundreds of other buyers / day. (Do you have a phone? internet? postage stamp?)
1) I use the tax data to get owner history and contact info (Used to have to spend HOURS in courthouse), but now is VERY ez online.
2) I screen the data based on how much I want the property and some other issues of negotiation (Which I don't disclose online, cuz agents will do the same (and have).
3) Contact the seller (various ways, never personal at first meeting, usually never possible or needed to meet personally) BTW: how many sellers do you meet personally when transacting with an agent (S).
4) Arrange earnest money agreement (I, seller, or Attorney draft)
5) Drop funds and EMA to Title company
6) I handle all financing and inspections / title review / surveys. (Seller needs to do nothing but sign)
7) Wire funds at closing date
enjoy your new property $20k - $50k less than using an agent (All the above takes <40 hrs)
Really quite simple (been doing it for 30+ yrs, as did my parents and my homeschool kids), I have a friend in Clark County that does 80 homes / month this way. (He has a staff of 10+ helping him)
One nice thing...
a) I ONLY solicit homes / properties that I want to own
b) I NEVER waste an agent's time / lunch / gas (tho several agents bring me deals (cuz I don't waste their time).
c) I appreciate title companies (who do all the work). and let them know that.
d) I do NOT consider a primary home an investment (rather it is a liability) - that is NOT conventional thought, and your agent may not tell you this. You can run the numbers on "Use of Capital", and your success may vary. Even tho my current home is worth 10x it's cost basis... it is NOT a very good performing investment (thus a liability), and HUGE liability.
You probably have a different perspective (as do MOST!)
One of my most successful purchases was a great view property that someone from Santa Barbara had purchased 10 yrs previous and 'thought / dreamed' of moving out of the CA rat-race... Life happened. I wrote a note, we negotiated a price, title company sent him a check. <10 days.
Another with a couple from Columbia SA who had only ventured to SA for a brief season, and ended up staying (for yrs).
Several bought from elderly in Care Centers (whose kids didn't want the hassle of cleaning and selling.) Usually I do direct owner finance with seniors (with 30 - 50% down),
BTW; you will never find me in a 'owned' home in a subdivision. - not for me. I would rent if I had to live in town without a view. (Ready to sell, there are hundreds just like yours (BTDT in Vancouver in 1980's!!! stuff didn't sell for YEARS!)
View / special interest properties... need to sell? SOLD!
YMMV, just my experiences and those of friends and predecessors.
Real Estate is DIRT simple (for the most part) certainly nothing to stress over..
find YOUR spot, dig till you strike a deal. Don't EVER settle for something less.
Location, Location, Location... paying more / waiting for right deal / price... all is VERY worthwhile in RE.
In the meantime... you can buy or rent a simple 'investment' / temp / exchange (1031) property.
Dead simple (for some) I bought my first home at age 19 (to house my disabled parent). $128.84 payments on $1.65 / hr... thought it would kill me. (nearly did).
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 12-18-2018 at 11:35 AM..
d) I do NOT consider a primary home an investment (rather it is a liability) - that is NOT conventional thought, and your agent may not tell you this. You can run the numbers on "Use of Capital", and your success may vary. Even tho my current home is worth 10x it's cost basis... it is NOT a very good performing investment (thus a liability), and HUGE liability.
A home is a liability. So is rent. Your residence also is a physical asset, whereas rent never will be an asset.
And when considering investment performance, be sure you are taking into account imputed rent, which isn't taxed in the United States, which I think is proper but it still is an enormous tax break. There are some countries, mostly in Europe, where the rental income you could receive if you rented out your home (instead of living in it) is actually taxed. Stated another way, in some countries you are simultaneously tenant/homeowner and landlord/homeowner. You the landlord/homeowner is taxed on the imputed rent you "pay" yourself as tenant/homeowner.
I think taxing imputed rent is beyond stupid. But be sure to consider this when analyzing the financial performance of your primary residence.
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