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My personal belief system does not allow me to eat animals, and I'm very open about that. So for someone to encourage me to eat "just one bite" is disrespectful -- or at attempt to dominate me, neither one of which is acceptable. I'm sorry that you can't understand that.
Yep, I get it now. "Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Try not to beat yourself up over it." Said one vegetarian to another vegan.
BUT, if someone who eats meat suggests it, then it is disrespectful or an attempt to dominate.
I didn't read the link, just lazy I guess, but did read what you posted. It made me think "what would I do" in that situation, but on the "other" side. Lets say my son brings a gf to Thanksgiving dinner and we have the "typical"(for us anyway) dinner w/turkey, dressing, etc. She comes and brings tofu w/enough for everyone to try.(she's a very nice and polite young woman) I would try the tofu and ask her to try the turkey, just a bite is all I'd ask and NO I would not "push" that she try it. I don't think it would hurt her, nor do I think it would hurt me. BTW, lets say she is 18+ as I wouldn't do this to someone younger out of respect toward the parents......not that it would be disrespectful(imho) if she were 18+, but I feel by that age she can make her own decisions.
In your opinion, would this be wrong of me to do? Why? Would one bite be wrong? I'm assume'n I'd look at the tofu the same as she would look at the turkey, but I'd take a bite.......it won't kill me or make me unhealthy. And yes, assume'n she is veg for health reasons and not animal welfare reasons(but if it were animal welfare I doubt the two would date for very long, just because of our background).
Tables turned, once again, if I were invited to a vegetarian Thanksgiving meal, I doubt I'd bring any turkey. Probably just a nice bottle of wine............and a 12pk beer.(just a joke on the beer)
Just curious. Thanks.
Say what???? When you encounter a recovering alcoholic, do you also offer them just a "taste of wine" or just a "glass of beer"? What do you offer ex-smokers? Is it just one puff or is it a whole cig? How courteous that you wouldn't do this to someone under the age of 18. Why the lack of respect for someone just because they're over your magical number?
You mentioned you were too lazy to read the link. Maybe the meat is bogging you down?
I do agree with you that the relationship wouldn't last long and I doubt that your son would be the one who'd end it.
I just really don't understand your post at all. Why would a non-vegetarian be so determined to make meat eaters of the world? HMMMMM, a farmer would possibly have something to gain from it, wouldn't he?
Say what???? When you encounter a recovering alcoholic, do you also offer them just a "taste of wine" or just a "glass of beer"? What do you offer ex-smokers? Is it just one puff or is it a whole cig? How courteous that you wouldn't do this to someone under the age of 18. Why the lack of respect for someone just because they're over your magical number?
Is a veg try'n not to be "addicted" to meat? Your say'n that one bite will turn a veg to a "non" veg? Is meat that addictive to you? It's not to me, I've gone MANY days w/out meat and I never got the "shakes". (if you want to go to extremes I can too.)
Not a lack of respect for the 18+yr old, respect for the parents of a 17(or less)yr old. It's not a magical number, 18 is an adult and can/should make their own decisions.
You mentioned you were too lazy to read the link. Maybe the meat is bogging you down?
Yep, thats it, the ol' "meat drags you down" bs.
I do agree with you that the relationship wouldn't last long and I doubt that your son would be the one who'd end it.
Nice "wink", you going after my son now? Nice.
I just really don't understand your post at all. Why would a non-vegetarian be so determined to make meat eaters of the world? HMMMMM, a farmer would possibly have something to gain from it, wouldn't he?
If every veg ate meat and pork it wouldn't add one nickle to my pocket.
I'm not determined to make everyone a meat eater. It was a different pov. I can easily see that people who eat meat and have a veg over must do EVERYTHING they can to make them happy. God forebid we have a ..........what do you call it...oh ya...a "dead carcass" on the table. that alone should be similar to a beer on the table to an alcoholic.(using your "terms")
I simply gave another pov. I didn't realize that a veg couldn't even eat one bite of meat.......yet nothing was said about me having to eat one bite of tofu.
Alright, now I'm upset....why did you totally highjack my thread--without even reading the (very short) article?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
What I "hear" is vegetarians are not flexible. I do not like cake or pies because it does not taste good to me and I see it going straight to my belly. I see it as not healthy at all. But I will eat a small piece at a b-day party, sometimes but not all, and I won't make a big deal about it as I know that one bite or small piece will not "damage" me. How much different is that from being a vegetarian?
How come people think we are picky eaters or not "flexible" because we don't eat meat? We HAVE eaten meat and now we choose NOT TO. It is a life-changing choice, one that is thought about for a long time with a lot of commitment to it. It is not anything the least like not really liking something but still eating it once in awhile. Not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
Yep, I get it now. "Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Try not to beat yourself up over it." Said one vegetarian to another vegan.
BUT, if someone who eats meat suggests it, then it is disrespectful or an attempt to dominate.
Because they are talking about cheese or gelatin or milk, not meat itself, or even broth. They are exchanging this response in an attitude of sympathy, the fact being that it probably already happened. The fact is, we all have accidently eaten meat/meat products when we weren't meaning to. It can be frighteningly difficult to eat vegetarian and vegan in this country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man
If every veg ate meat and pork it wouldn't add one nickle to my pocket.
I'm not determined to make everyone a meat eater. It was a different pov. I can easily see that people who eat meat and have a veg over must do EVERYTHING they can to make them happy. God forebid we have a ..........what do you call it...oh ya...a "dead carcass" on the table. that alone should be similar to a beer on the table to an alcoholic.(using your "terms")
I simply gave another pov. I didn't realize that a veg couldn't even eat one bite of meat.......yet nothing was said about me having to eat one bite of tofu.
gotta go.
Where do you get off saying that we make people do EVERYTHING to make us happy when we are guests? Did you even read the article? Oh, that is right, you didn't. And you know what, my MIL is an alcoholic. When she comes to visit we not only do not drink any, at any point in the visit, I make sure what we do have is hidden away and that I don't cook with any--even cooking wine. It is called compassion and thoughtfulness.
It is not a religion--although some religions are vegetarian. Religion is worshipping a deity. Vegetarians have made a educated and throughly-thought out decision to not to eat meat for various reasons. Why anyone should have such an incredible problem this is way beyond my thinking.
You don't have to eat tofu at all. No one said you had to. I always check with my dinner guests beforehand for any dietary needs, allergies and just plain dislikes. If someone really doesn't like tofu, I make sure I don't cook it--not even hidden.
Listen, this forum was created so that vegetarians and vegans could exchange ideas, recipes, and help each other with problems that come with being a veggie--all with miminmal arguements from non-vegs. I posted this article hoping to inspire other people to share their Thanksgiving experiences--the good and bad. I definately didn't post it so someone could come in and start yet another words-war. Are people going to have disagreements? Of course, and hopefully most of those will be respectful and maybe even open people's thinking. Should only vegetarian/vegan people post in this forum? Absolutely not. But should we have to defend our lifestyle every 5th thread? NO! Do you not see how argumentive many of your posts are?
Sorry, had to get that off my chest, even though I continued the high-jack of the thread.
Grrrrr,
I don't really want to get into this debate...
But back to OP, crazyme Thank you for that article! It was interesting!
I forwarded it onto my 13 yr old niece. She will be at her Dads this year for Thanksgiving and it has been a bit of a challenge for her when she's with him regarding food that is available to her even though she has been veggie for 3yrs. He is getting better though to respect her wishes and understand more. Hope this article helps her and maybe he will read it too!!!
If every veg ate meat and pork it wouldn't add one nickle to my pocket.
I'm not determined to make everyone a meat eater. It was a different pov. I can easily see that people who eat meat and have a veg over must do EVERYTHING they can to make them happy. God forebid we have a ..........what do you call it...oh ya...a "dead carcass" on the table. that alone should be similar to a beer on the table to an alcoholic.(using your "terms")
I simply gave another pov. I didn't realize that a veg couldn't even eat one bite of meat.......yet nothing was said about me having to eat one bite of tofu.
gotta go.
A veg doesn't WANT to eat even one bite of meat and I didn't realize anyone was demanding that you eat tofu. That was your scenario, remember?
If there is no gain in it for you, I don't understand why vegetarians are of interest to you. It's just odd.
And Crazyme, thank you for the interesting article. Now, where were we?
I read the article and yes, it is a bit of fluff - but it's the holidays!!! Being veg is much harder when you're young I think.
The article and Need4Trees story of her neice reminded me of my friend's little girls (they are thirteen yo twins!) One went veg and dad is incredibly supportive; he thinks she can make her own mind up! Lucky girl, eh? I am proud that when we were out to dinner about five years ago, she grilled me (no pun!) on why I was a vegetarian! His girls are growing up to be extremely independent, and know how to make their own choices in life - pretty impressive for children.
I will say that I am fortunate enough to have people and family in my life who, though veganism is not entirely comprehensible to them, are always respectful of my choices. They wouldn't be my friends for long if they didn't.
Well, that's what the holidays are for, aren't they - so your family can irritate you with those elbow jabs and lame jokes!
I'm all for the Seinfeld version of holiday traditions - a glorious, Happy Festivus for everyone!!!
Last edited by Wicked Felina; 11-22-2008 at 11:09 PM..
Reason: punctuation.
We just avoid spending Thanksgiving with family or other omnivores because its just too uncomfortable for anyone and the last thing I want to be is the center of attention. The article seemed to sum it up well but also seem apologetic to those who harrass loved ones for their choice of vegetariansim. Sure, you pick on each other sometimes, but if you really love someone - you stop when you see that it bothers them.
As for anyone asking you to take "just one bite" of meat - it means that person either has no respect for your choice or does not realize that it is a values based choice. Its asking someone to cross a moral line they have drawn for themselves and is thus, incredibely rude. Doing at a family gathering which is already awkward for a vegetarian is just plain spiteful.
Its like asking something like:
Come on, just steal something this one time...come on, just one little abortion (to a pro-lifer)...come on, just one little drink (to an alcoholic), etc.
When you eat some tofu, is it crossing the line on a deeply held belief? I doubt it.
Ok, Crazy, I am sorry. I didn't mean this to go the way it did, and when it turned ugly(imho) I got mad and probably screwed up your thread. I do appologize, and I'm 100% honest.
I was just giving another pov, and honestly you were the only one that I think saw what I was getting at. Then I went off on the others, as I felt they were "after" me.
Now, to all you vegetarians/vegans. I did not realize that asking, and I did say I wouldn't push it as I don't w/my neices(they don't like anything "weird", ie shellfish, fish, smoked corn-on-the-cob, etc....no they arent' veg). I ask them to take a bite of something new, I'm not ask'n them to take a drink of alcohol or steal something and I don't push it on them.
I'm try'n to understand veg, I tried to relate it to religion, shot down.
I gotta end this, as this is not part of the thread. I have more to say, but I will take it up elsewhere.
Again, I'm sorry. It would be very different if it were "face to face", and not on some forum.
Now, to all you vegetarians/vegans. I did not realize that asking, and I did say I wouldn't push it as I don't w/my neices(they don't like anything "weird", ie shellfish, fish, smoked corn-on-the-cob, etc....no they arent' veg). I ask them to take a bite of something new, I'm not ask'n them to take a drink of alcohol or steal something and I don't push it on them.
Pulling it all back to the thread...
Well, its good that you asked and now you know how such a request would be seen by a vegetarian - nothing wrong with finding that out. I assumed you were testing the waters in case you wanted to try offering a vegetarian guest "just one bite" of something. Its good that you found out now instead of on Thanksgiving day.
It all boils down to respecting other's choices, especially those based on values since we all hold them dear (whatever values those may be). The example in the article of families not understanding or respecting a vegetarian's values is what makes this holiday so problematic for many of us. I think Cave Man's question illustrated part of it - that (often quite innocently) some family members see only a diet choice, not the values behind it.
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) I would try the tofu and ask her to try the turkey, just a bite is all I'd ask and NO I would not "push" that she try it. I don't think it would hurt her, nor do I think it would hurt me. BTW, lets say she is 18+ as I wouldn't do this to someone younger out of respect toward the parents......not that it would be disrespectful(imho) if she were 18+, but I feel by that age she can make her own decisions.
