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Vermonters are not mean at all, but they are very stoic and don't go out of their way to be your buddy.
I second that. Although I might use the word standoffish rather than stoic. And the only variance to standoffish seems to be a fake overly done "friendly" which is similarly off putting.
There also seems to be resentment for people who don't come from Vermont; even for other New Englanders. Most New Englanders are not quick to warm-up to outsiders and require more time to trust strangers, so to speak. But even though we are initially cool, we will eventually allow people to know us once trust is established and assuming the other person is willing to invest the time and be genuine enough so that trust can be established. But Vermonters seem to be particularly chilly and reluctant to let you get to know them, even if you are real and try to develop the trust. It just doesn't seem to happen unless you are another Vermonter. Of course these are general observations and there are exceptions to all.
I've spent significant amount of time in all New England states and in my opinion Vermont is an anomaly to them in many ways. I have several theses on why this might be, that I won't get into in this thread but they relate its rural nature as well as the differences in migration and culturalization that other NE states saw during the Industrial period, which were different in Vermont.
Last edited by scoobydew; 10-05-2014 at 05:09 PM..
I second that. Although I might use the word standoffish rather than stoic. And the only variance to standoffish seems to be a fake overly done "friendly" which is similarly off putting.
There also seems to be resentment for people who don't come from Vermont; even for other New Englanders. Most New Englanders are not quick to warm-up to outsiders and require more time to trust strangers, so to speak. But even though we are initially cool, we will eventually allow people to know us once trust is established and assuming the other person is willing to invest the time and be genuine enough so that trust can be established. But Vermonters seem to be particularly chilly and reluctant to let you get to know them, even if you are real and try to develop the trust. It just doesn't seem to happen unless you are another Vermonter. Of course these are general observations and there are exceptions to all.
I've spent significant amount of time in all New England states and in my opinion Vermont is an anomaly to them in many ways. I have several theses on why this might be, that I won't get into in this thread but they relate its rural nature as well as the differences in migration and culturalization that other NE states saw during the Industrial period, which were different in Vermont.
"Standoffish" is a good term. When I got to Vermont, I worked for a temp agency 'til my "real" job was open, and I heard the term "Flatlander" 4 times a day. I had never heard geographic bias so strong since Augusta Georgia in '71 with the "Yankee" stuff. Also, a newcomer needs to know that the few jobs that are available will usually go to long-term Vermonters. Vermont is a very transient place, people come, experience a few winters and leave. An employer is going to choose someone who has stuck-it-out so to speak.
I think at the end of the day it all comes down to the attitude you bring with you. My wife and I only moved to VT 15 months ago but sometimes I can already see why most Vermonters don't like "transplants". For one I'm already sick and tired myself of sharing the road with M@ssholes. And the attitudes of some people. Our local Vermonter friends that we have actually found quite easy to make always tell us we're not transplants, we're original...they would never be able to tell the difference(even though we're a little more conservative than some of them). All about the attitude. You get what you give.
I think at the end of the day it all comes down to the attitude you bring with you. My wife and I only moved to VT 15 months ago but sometimes I can already see why most Vermonters don't like "transplants". For one I'm already sick and tired myself of sharing the road with M@ssholes. And the attitudes of some people. Our local Vermonter friends that we have actually found quite easy to make always tell us we're not transplants, we're original...they would never be able to tell the difference(even though we're a little more conservative than some of them). All about the attitude. You get what you give.
So you're basically saying that it's the attitude of the the transplant that is at issue and those of the natives shouldn't matter? And you're also saying that if you either share similar perspectives or choose to conform to prevailing norms than you have a good "attitude" (ie: being like an "original" Vermonter) and those who don't bring a poor attitude? That's too funny.
Vermont has this reputation of being a very independent minded freethinking 'Live and Let Live' place. But, generally speaking, at the end of the day it's just as conformist and provincial as a lot of other rural places. I'm sorry that sharing the road with ma$sholes---as you call them---and the other transplants you mention, has tarnished your new paradise. But it's all about attitude. With the right attitude they wouldn't bother you. Aren't you the one who was recently bellyaching about driving around for "1 hour" for a parking space in Burlington? Hmm. I guess that's because of all the ma$$holes and transplants.
If only Vermont could put up a fence and allow only like-minded people, with the proper attitude, it would be a grand place to live....don't ya think? It's all about the PROPER attitude, ya know. lmao
Last edited by scoobydew; 10-11-2014 at 01:15 PM..
So you're basically saying that it's the attitude of the the transplant that is at issue and those of the natives shouldn't matter? And you're also saying that if you either share similar perspectives or choose to conform to prevailing norms than you have a good "attitude" (ie: being like an "original" Vermonter) and those who don't bring a poor attitude? That's too funny.
Vermont has this reputation of being a very independent minded freethinking 'Live and Let Live' place. But, generally speaking, at the end of the day it's just as conformist and provincial as a lot of other rural places. I'm sorry that sharing the road with ma$sholes---as you call them---and the other transplants you mention, has tarnished your new paradise. But it's all about attitude. With the right attitude they wouldn't bother you. Aren't you the one who was recently bellyaching about driving around for "1 hour" for a parking space in Burlington? Hmm. I guess that's because of all the ma$$holes and transplants.
If only Vermont could put up a fence and allow only like-minded people, with the proper attitude, it would be a grand place to live....don't ya think? It's all about the PROPER attitude, ya know. lmao
You are proving my point exactly just in your reply. I can already sense the attitude that would prevent you from feeling accepted.
For one, no I was not the one "bellyaching" about driving around for 1 hour for a parking space.
For two - I said exactly the opposite - even though we don't necessarily share some of the same views as some other Vermonters, we still don't have issues with anyone. You know why? Cause it's because how you go about things. your reply alone shows me you go about things in a completely different manner than we do.
Respect people and they'll respect you.
And yes, Massh**** drive like...well, Massh****. Sorry to say. I've spent 3.5 years in Boston myself, I loved it there, I have nothing against the place but...I can't help that most of them drive like $h!t.
You are proving my point exactly just in your reply. I can already sense the attitude that would prevent you from feeling accepted.
Really? Please define. If you really believe that you can sense someone's overall attitude by a few observational comments and discourse in an online forum then you are pretty presumptive. I never complained about, nor asked for, advice about "feeling accepted" by Vermonters on anyone. Indeed, not only do I know and like some great people from Vermont, but I also don't go through life with an eye toward being accepted by everyone. My comments are general observations. You've read far more into my (and obviously the other comments on this thread) than you should have. I've made observations along with others and I offer opinions with the full acknowledgement that they are generalizations and that there are exceptions to almost everything. You chose the path of bringing unsolicited advice to people you don't know anything about. That says more about you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriz
For one, no I was not the one "bellyaching" about driving around for 1 hour for a parking space.
Oh ok, my mistake. I apologize for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriz
For two - I said exactly the opposite - even though we don't necessarily share some of the same views as some other Vermonters, we still don't have issues with anyone. You know why? Cause it's because how you go about things. your reply alone shows me you go about things in a completely different manner than we do.
You said the opposite? ....You said that you were called an "original." That would imply sameness. That would actually imply quite a bit of sameness. Okay...you're libertarian. We all have different political views. I dont see that as a monumental difference you've overcome. Actually I'd say that being an active proponent of marijuana-use (along with whatever other aspects of your life-views that large groups of Vermonters may share) would put you in line with a major demographic in Vermont. Maybe you're also from a culture that shares major similarities to Vermont, who knows? Who cares? Birds of a feather flock together. I get it. But to conclude that it's your innate ability to to be accepted or any particular "attitude" you've developed sounds like you need to take a deep breath and get over yourself. Oh, and someone made a comment about you being an original, that's all well and good. I assure you that a resolution to this effect wasn't passed at the Capital so I wouldn't be running for Governor any time soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriz
Respect people and they'll respect you.
You're assuming that those offering negatives opinions about a place that you like means we've been disrespectful to people. This is a completely baseless assumption on your part. Maybe you shouls offer this advice to some people you actually KNOW. And how do you know that I/we haven't been treated disrespectfully by Vermonters? You don't so lave it at that. Your experiences have been based on your experiences. I have no idea how broad or narrow those experiences have been but they are YOURS. And we (the other commentators) have ours. You can try to marginalize me or my opinion by implying that my opinions are because your attitudes are better than mine, but most of us know that's just you pipe-dreaming. (pardon the pun)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriz
And yes, Massh**** drive like...well, Massh****. Sorry to say. I've spent 3.5 years in Boston myself, I loved it there, I have nothing against the place but...I can't help that most of them drive like $h!t.
It obviously works for Boston. You do a lot of preaching about attitude and respect, but you don't seem to apply the same rules to your own views. People in NY and Boston drive aggressively. You don't like that...I get it. But, generally speaking, they also drive very attentively....which can't be said of many other places. Either way, you call it driving like____ but they obviously don't. All you need to do in either of those places is pay attention (which many drivers from other places don't) move at whatever your pace is, and stay out of the way of people who have a faster pace. Very simple.
I agree that attitudes are important. Like all of us, I've had my share of bad attitudes and I try to maintain good attitudes. But attitudes go both ways. You preach about attitudes as if you are better than the other commentators because you have a better attitude and are more respectful. Maybe your attitudes are simply more in line with some of the people in the state. You actually have no idea what attitude any of us have brought nor do you know how respectful or disrespectful any of us have been. I'm really glad you've found your niche wherever you are, but being self righteous doesn't make you right and it doesn't make our opinions less valid. Since you're in the business of giving advice here's some to you....speak to your own experiences and keep your advice because any advice you give is based on your own assumptions and biases and not necessarily on fact. Like others, I make observations. They are my own opinions based on my experiences. I fully respect your right to disagree but this self righteous position that your brand of living is somehow superior says more about you than it does me.
Last edited by scoobydew; 10-12-2014 at 01:22 PM..
i think that i might give VT a run... my theory is that anywhere you go that is under 15k in population is a good bet. Burlington, or any crowded city is bound to be a frustrating experience on the road or in general. This is just my general theory of modern crowded life. Crowded areas like Japan can work, but people get tons of iodine out there and can tolerate more.
Here's an observation: Me not liking how they drive, has absolutely nothing to do with aggressive driving. I'm an aggressive driver myself, and where I've been driving most of my life makes driving in Boston look like child's play. That has absolutely nothing to do with my comment. Drive aggressive, but drive like a human being not like a beast.
The "originals" comment...has nothing to do with views, has everything to do with attitude. In the way of not being condescending, being simple, not being rude, or uppity, not looking down on people, I can go on forever.
The "originals" comment...has nothing to do with views, has everything to do with attitude. In the way of not being condescending, being simple, not being rude, or uppity, not looking down on people, I can go on forever.
Well, like I said above, the view that YOUR attitude is superior to others here who have expressed negative comments IS uppity and condescending, and you have NO clue as to my attitudes in dealing with anyone......So go find a mirror.
And even if you were correct about original equaling attitude (which is simply something you're making up as you go along) the implication is that those who share similar attitudes and views will be "accepted." That itself is a load or BS all around. At the end of the day YOUR views about Vermont are the correct views and YOUR views about Mass drivers are the correct views.....Your views about what is a human are correct and YOUR views about what is a "beast" and everyone else is wrong. That speaks loud and clear about who YOU are. You're a hypocritical mess and the fact you claim to be "accepted" by a few mythical people in a sparsely populated rural area because you hold the correct "original" attitudes doesn't impress me in the least. Good day.
Last edited by scoobydew; 10-13-2014 at 06:05 AM..
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You're a hypocritical mess and the fact you claim to be "accepted" by a few mythical people in a sparsely populated rural area because you hold the correct "original" attitudes doesn't impress me in the least. Good day.
