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I don't know of any other occupation where you get Holidays, some of them for over a week, every month and summers off.
Very few occupations that I know of that you are guaranteed a raise every year.
LOL!!! Spoken like someone with zero insight or knowledge. My mother was a teacher. To keep accreditation, there are required classes over the summer. Those holidays get spent working on lesson plans and grading and other work. There are service days. Many was the day when she got home from school and spent until 8 PM or 9 PM finishing up work.
On average, Massachusetts teachers earn more than teachers in other states. However, I suspect there are more and greater barriers to entry for the teaching profession in Massachusetts, relative to North Carolina and other Southern states. In addition to the remuneration of regular union dues, I presume the state of Massachusetts requires teachers to obtain a master's degree within 5-10 years of employment, similar to Rhode Island, which can be hefty a expensive, assuming no financial aid or scholarship money. Additionally, Massachusetts residents probably pay higher tuition costs at state colleges and universities than North Carolina residents. And I am certain the application for a teaching credential or license is more expensive in Massachusetts than North Carolina. Finally, in my experience, teaching is a more common profession in New England than North Carolina and other Southern states due to the generally older population of New England; therefore, there is probably more job competition in local school districts in Massachusetts compared to North Carolina.
LOL!!! Spoken like someone with zero insight or knowledge. My mother was a teacher. To keep accreditation, there are required classes over the summer. Those holidays get spent working on lesson plans and grading and other work. There are service days. Many was the day when she got home from school and spent until 8 PM or 9 PM finishing up work.
And you are speaking like someone that is basing his knowledge by what he saw his mother doing umpteen years ago. Did she have four to eight students in her class? a
Are you saying teachers aren't given a guaranteed raise every year? There are many people that are dedicated workers that don't know when they are getting their next raise. You don't agree that they have off every month for a holiday? If so, check out the school calendar in your district.
Hello again, Friends. OP here. Well, I moved to Durham NC in July 2018 so my wife could work at Duke Children’s Hospital. We are moving back to New England.
We were able to buy a house for <$350k in what I’ll call the coveted Duke Forest neighborhood 2.5 years ago, and it has appreciated by literally 50% given the growth of Durham (100 people per week move to the triangle with a large part presumably to Durham based on what I see downtown). I share that number as full transparency (vs bragging), and in response to the previous “buy a house in VT and 8 years later it’s worth what you paid” remark. +1 for here, in that sense. Do note well, however, that there is so much land and sprawl around that it’s scalpel specific as to what neighborhoods appreciate). Our side of the street is currently districted to an 8/10 rated elementary school. The other side of the street a 2/10. NC is also 48th best in education, so that’s still probably terrible. The middle and high schools in our district are also terrible, so many people here (like my neighbors) pay $18k/yr to send their kids to Durham Academy private school, and then say it’s cheaper than the added housing cost and property taxes of moving to Chapel Hill / Carborro. I’d assume that to be true.
Why move back? For every single reason that’s been presented here We tried it, we wanted to like it, we worked at making community (covid made it hard, obviously), but— and this is disappointing about ourselves in that it says/proves we aren’t as flexible as we’d like to think— we just don’t like the “culture” here. There’s a disconnect. Something isn’t right. Could it be the accents? (Note: It’s class driven, since every cashier, tradesperson, phone operator, etc., has the y’all drawl, and everyone in a bar tending position, hair cutting, or white collar job seems to be neutral or clearly foreign. The younger people from here leave; the younger people from elsewhere come; there seem to be no white collar (which I use colloquially, non judgey, as an efficient way to differentiate profession types, not worth of those possessions— we all need people from each sector, be it doctor or mechanic or plumber or store manager) workers from here. So back to the liberal bubble, if that’s all you deal with, you don’t hear any accents until you interact with someone usually on a “I’ll pay you to do this for me” basis, which is uncomfortable (and again, probably just more telling of my own privilege, guilt, and future humanist world hopes) and head snapping distinct. It makes you feel like an outsider.
And while Durham was 80% Democrat in 2020, ohhhh MAN was it a different story out of the bubble. My new saying after being here 2.5 years, is that every 10 minutes out of town is like driving 10 years back in time (if not more). Holy sh*t does it drop off fast! You’ll never see more satellite dishes, trailers, homemade Trump billboards, six cars per house, two boat hulls (not boats), and what surely is the greatest case of mass government-sanctioned Stockholm syndrome on record. Why else would people making $30k get so angry at the idea of raising minimum wage? It’s bizarre. But that bubble? A nice place to live. We just can’t do it anymore.
Asheville is really far (3 hours), and is way better looking online than in reality. I was majorly duped by their tourism campaign. It is not a warm weather Burlington. It’s small, expensive, and surrounded by bubbas. We went three times and just don’t want to do the drive anymore. A big reason for that is, in NE, you can get off at any exit and when you go into ANY establishment, even the ones with the old manually spinning gas pump meters, the music inside doesn’t stop and everyone stop chewing/talking and look at you, hoping you back out. Are the people friendly inside? Well they’re not unfriendly, but it’s always been very slow exchanges, like a hostage exchange— they seem uncomfortable or untrusting. And there’s no scenic route to get there— just flat, fast highway with zero towns of interest along the way. I bought an old school map book with places to see by grid; nothing worth visiting, and the mountains are really hot and humid (not a nice cool air retreat like in NE. And I know those are massively over generalized statements, but if you read my earlier posts, you’ll have context to know I wanted, very very much, to make this work. The things I’m saying are way more true than untrue, but per usual YMMV.
We never bothered going to the coast, since it also is 3+ hours away and that’s just really far (bad traffic also, similar to Cape Cod). So Durham is the sport utility vehicle of towns. Pretty good at a few things but not great at any. It’s not near the mountains, not near the coast, and has no water to speak or apart from treatment plants, brown rivers, and two small lakes 25 min away (most people who want to boat drive an hour and a half to Lake Gaston).
Chapel Hill seems too far to drive (25), and Raleigh at 40 is a forget about it (offers nothing else from Durham). The airport is fantastic, though, and the only thing I’ll truly miss about this place. It makes Providence look like Logan, though without PreCheck the lines are long (they’re doubling its size so it will even out).
My wife’s commute is 7 minutes. We are 10 minutes from downtown Durham, on lovely scenic backroads— then poof, buildings. In our grid of neighborhood streets, we walk our dog and baby stroller right down the center of the road, which is nice.
The humidity is endless, it’s 80+ from March through October (way too long), and once it’s 55 you are somehow freezing cold. I hoped we would be the people in shorts all winter, smugly looking at the bundled-up locals who don’t have “thick New England blood”, but we’d visit family in September in MA and be cold in pants(!) and wear full winter hats and jackets in the 40s. I’m amazed how quickly we adjusted (again, I lived in Burlington a while and snowshoe! But here? Don’t go out it’s too cold [checks temp: 41]). There’s only about one maybe two snow events a year, which is magical and not enough, but they really don’t plow or have salt, so you have to stay home (not because you can’t drive in it, but because everyone else can’t and they often declare an emergency banning you). Without snow blanketing the ground, it’s just brown and dead like early December (stick season!) for 3-4 months, which feels really long. I’d rather the snow, deciding that complaining about it by late Feb is better than not having it.
Oh and the copperheads. Snake bite capitol of the US (nearly 700 per year! And once you’re bit, you’ll be careful and your family and friends will be careful, so there’s a growing network of careful people yet continued and increasing bites) we see a copperhead at least once a week on our walks. You have to walk head down, clearing each tree root and stick like Terminator, knowing even still they’re masters of disguise.
We did some house and yard upgrades, needing different trades, and they were the slowest, laziest, most shoddy craftsmen I’ve ever known. Every single one was worse than the last, and these were the best recommended ones. I mean it— every one would be out of business in a week up north. I’m talking AC leaks, a tipping over toilet, peeling interior paint, sprinkler blowouts and flooding, grading issues, you name it— each one was somehow worse than the previous.
Despite the words used in this post, I really don’t want to sound like I’m complaining— and will walk away with money in my pocket because of my home— but want to leave a record for posterity that it really is another world here. The Jesus stuff is also in your face as feared. There are so many religious lawn signs and billboards you’d swear he’s running for elected office. And when you flip through the car radio stations, it’s conservative talk radio or priests.
Oh yea, the driving out of the bubble, we don’t bother anymore. There’s no joy in taking a scenic drive because you realize— especially after the election— just how little there is for you there. I miss driving around, taking in the sights. I didn’t know how much I liked doing that until I can’t (it’s sad to do here). So I basically don’t leave the bubble except for a trail walk (and once you do, in covid terms, you see a lot of anti maskers which snaps you out of the “this is nice” mindset (if the Bigfoot swamp scenery /aesthetic doesn’t).
I didn’t teach here. It would’ve been a 50% pay cut from MA (and I was only a fourth year), and taken 25 more years until I finally earn what I made before. Then your pension would also be 12% not 80%. And, after all the teacher strikes, the only response passed by the legislature was to require “in god we trust” be prominently placed inside the entrance of all public schools. Seriously. Teachers had to pay to hire their own subs so they could go on strike. If NC was 48th in football or basketball it would be a problem.
We are looking back at the Providence metro to be nearer family (now that we have a baby, going back to my love of VT would be much less convenient for visits to/from aging grandparents) and the Portland ME metro (which would be 2.5 hours from both sets; Burlington would be 4 hours and 7 hours; Brattleboro also too far). Someday we’ll probably get back, but not for this next phase where family, cousins, etc are important for our kid and future kids. I’d rather suck it up and live in RI than stay here any longer. The bubble is nice, but the bubble isn’t real. And you can’t leave the bubble without being reminded how ****ty much of NC is, how unequal our society is, and how unfair so much is to so many. Is New England just a larger bubble? Yes, in a very real way, but we can drive for 7 hours in any of the states and have it still feel like home. That’s a pretty good size bubble; one I can live with/in/for.
Happy to answer anyone’s questions, for I’ve thought about this way more than anyone should, both while here for a one month trial, for a year after, and then for 2.5 since moving here. I love the concepts and questions, so please do ask.
Moved back to VT a year ago after being in Asheville for 6 years. Some of the reasons are identical to what you said. Difficulty finding craftspeople to work on house, nothing interesting within 4 hours driving time from Asheville, instead of copperheads it was bears. Lots and lots of bears.
And you are speaking like someone that is basing his knowledge by what he saw his mother doing umpteen years ago. Did she have four to eight students in her class? a
Are you saying teachers aren't given a guaranteed raise every year? There are many people that are dedicated workers that don't know when they are getting their next raise. You don't agree that they have off every month for a holiday? If so, check out the school calendar in your district.
Teachers--usually we got raises but sometimes the union made us go on strike for money. It was messy but money wasn't the main factor in why teaching is not all it's cracked up to be. A lot of the kids today are horrible! They haven't been taught how to behave and once they get to school, the teachers are not allowed to discipline them. Anything they do (threaten you, bring drugs or knives, belong to gangs) is fine with the administration.
When I started out I had 30 little angels in my classroom. Years later, I found it hard to handle five of what today's kids are like. For the nice kids, it's a shame because so much time is spent trying to control the impossibly bratty kids. They get away with everything. No one will back you up either.
I would get home at about 4pm or later, yes, but after housework and cooking dinner, I would spend from 8 to 11pm on school work for the next day. Lesson plans had to be written out, for young kids, lessons had to be put together for the entire day and each lesson only lasts for the length of their typical attention span of 15 minutes. That's a lot of lessons to be planned out, and planned to accommodate the slowest right on up to the fastest learners, as well as to address different learning methods. It's not as easy as it sounds.
At the end, most of the teachers were just hanging in long enough to collect their pensions. Morale was very low. Even teachers in expensive towns said the same thing and they also complained about leaking roofs, lack of supplies, kids getting to say and do anything they wanted. Weekends are filled with school work because there's no time to do it during the school day and a weekend isn't long enough to get the stress out of your head. The week off every so often was good and we needed that. Summer was good but you did end up going into the building (no a/c either) and trying to work during August. I'd say the only good parts were the few good kids if you got a chance to teach them much of anything, and the week long vacations where you could actually get it out of your mind for a while. Summer vacation too. There's no chance for advancement, not enough time to eat your lunch, you can't leave the building, you stand out on the playground in sub zero cold in winter for elementary school and are not allowed to enter the building to get warm--you're not running around like the kids to keep warm!
As for NC, they probably have some of the worst schools in the country because they don't care. My sister could have gotten hired there with only a college degree--no teacher training whatsoever. Pay would have been low so she's better off staying in VA and working in a public library, work that is enjoyable and rewarding.
It doesn't sound like you taught in VT. I worked as a sub in some of the schools and what I saw was quite the opposite of the teacher you are describing. And it was me who froze my butt off when the kids went outside. The teacher stayed warm and cozy in the building. There was a teacher on CD that said that their contract states that they only have to teach for 2 1/2 hours a day and be in the building for four hours.
As for NC only needing a college degree......that's more than VT requires. One of my friends was a sub and the administration offered her a teaching position. Not having the education wasn't an issue. Maybe that's why not one student out of a class of 8 children passed the state test.
I do understand there is a major problem with the way children behave today. Very few have respect for adults and it is much different than the way I was raised. My grandchildren went to a public school in New Jersey. When they would come and visit, I was amazed at how educated they were. I wish every child was able to get the education that they were getting. Actually, every child should be, but sadly, they are not.
Moved back to VT a year ago after being in Asheville for 6 years. Some of the reasons are identical to what you said. Difficulty finding craftspeople to work on house, nothing interesting within 4 hours driving time from Asheville, instead of copperheads it was bears. Lots and lots of bears.
Wow. You can find craftspeople to work on your house? LOL.
Teachers--usually we got raises but sometimes the union made us go on strike for money. It was messy but money wasn't the main factor in why teaching is not all it's cracked up to be. A lot of the kids today are horrible! They haven't been taught how to behave and once they get to school, the teachers are not allowed to discipline them. Anything they do (threaten you, bring drugs or knives, belong to gangs) is fine with the administration.
When I started out I had 30 little angels in my classroom. Years later, I found it hard to handle five of what today's kids are like. For the nice kids, it's a shame because so much time is spent trying to control the impossibly bratty kids. They get away with everything. No one will back you up either.
I would get home at about 4pm or later, yes, but after housework and cooking dinner, I would spend from 8 to 11pm on school work for the next day. Lesson plans had to be written out, for young kids, lessons had to be put together for the entire day and each lesson only lasts for the length of their typical attention span of 15 minutes. That's a lot of lessons to be planned out, and planned to accommodate the slowest right on up to the fastest learners, as well as to address different learning methods. It's not as easy as it sounds.
At the end, most of the teachers were just hanging in long enough to collect their pensions. Morale was very low. Even teachers in expensive towns said the same thing and they also complained about leaking roofs, lack of supplies, kids getting to say and do anything they wanted. Weekends are filled with school work because there's no time to do it during the school day and a weekend isn't long enough to get the stress out of your head. The week off every so often was good and we needed that. Summer was good but you did end up going into the building (no a/c either) and trying to work during August. I'd say the only good parts were the few good kids if you got a chance to teach them much of anything, and the week long vacations where you could actually get it out of your mind for a while. Summer vacation too. There's no chance for advancement, not enough time to eat your lunch, you can't leave the building, you stand out on the playground in sub zero cold in winter for elementary school and are not allowed to enter the building to get warm--you're not running around like the kids to keep warm!
As for NC, they probably have some of the worst schools in the country because they don't care. My sister could have gotten hired there with only a college degree--no teacher training whatsoever. Pay would have been low so she's better off staying in VA and working in a public library, work that is enjoyable and rewarding.
Cry me a river. I hope you don't expect people to feel sorry for you. You wanted to be a teacher.
That said, I do know what you mean about kids today. Poor parenting abounds.
Cry me a river. I hope you don't expect people to feel sorry for you. You wanted to be a teacher.
That said, I do know what you mean about kids today. Poor parenting abounds.
Feel sorry for me? You're way off base if that's what you think. I was merely backing up what Harry chickpea said about his mother having been a teacher, that the job is not all it's cracked up to be.
Anyway, I did not want to become a teacher. (Just to set the record straight.) I am a woman and when I was growing up women were mostly not allowed to be anything except secretaries, teachers, nurses, or social workers. I almost became a social worker though. I'm very glad that woman are treated more equally today than they were in the past.
Poor parenting does seem to be the norm today--I think the parents must feel guilty and so they give their kids everything. Or their idea of being a parent is being the child's friend. No role model, just an older pal.
BTW, I think it greatly depends upon where in Vermont you live. I still have a few relatives in the Northeast Kingdom (the rest of the family got out of there a few generations ago, lol) and they are very conservative. I would never live way up there in the frigid north if you paid me--but they are hardy souls who love it.
Last edited by in_newengland; 06-18-2021 at 09:21 PM..
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We tried it, we wanted to like it, we worked at making community (covid made it hard, obviously), but— and this is disappointing about ourselves in that it says/proves we aren’t as flexible as we’d like to think— we just don’t like the “culture” here. There’s a disconnect. Something isn’t right. Could it be the accents? (Note: It’s class driven, since every cashier, tradesperson, phone operator, etc., has the y’all drawl, and everyone in a bar tending position, hair cutting, or white collar job seems to be neutral or clearly foreign. The younger people from here leave; the younger people from elsewhere come; there seem to be no white collar (which I use colloquially, non judgey, as an efficient way to differentiate profession types, not worth of those possessions— we all need people from each sector, be it doctor or mechanic or plumber or store manager) workers from here. So back to the liberal bubble, if that’s all you deal with, you don’t hear any accents until you interact with someone usually on a “I’ll pay you to do this for me” basis, which is uncomfortable (and again, probably just more telling of my own privilege, guilt, and future humanist world hopes) and head snapping distinct. It makes you feel like an outsider.
