Is Virginia a Northern or Southern state? (Richmond, Hampton: water, towns)

[cam4vt]

You can not classify a state as big as VA as one or the other. Bristol is different than Roanoke. Roanoke is different than Richmond which is different from the Hampton Roads area. And NOVA is different from all of the above. You have urban areas and suburban sprawl to middle of no where country and everything in between. Mountains and hills to flat land and ocean fronts. Virginia is just Virginia and does not fully fit any category anymore.

[JayJayCB]

Historically, southern without a doubt. Today, kind of the transition zone between southern and Mid-Atlantic. No area north of Richmond honestly feels like the "good ol' South" I know, but I'm also coming from North Carolina. Major metros of Virginia are pretty transplant saturated, and it's a popular opinion on CD that NOVA isn't southern these days. Also, some folks don't even call the Hampton Roads southern and Richmond to a lesser extent. Roanoke and Bristol are more so Appalachian, but I'd still call them southern. I don't even know what I'd call Harrisonburg and Winchester. Lynchburg is pretty southern, and also historically Bible Belt-ish (Jerry Falwell, Liberty University). I'd call Richmond the last southern city if you're heading up I-95. Older tobacco/textile towns like Martinsville, Danville, South Boston, South Hill, and Emporia along the NC border are extremely southern.

Overall, south of I-64 definitely feels like the South IMO. However, north of 64 feels more like a transition zone between southern and Mid-Atlantic. Once you hit DC and Maryland, you're out of the South for good.

[JayJayCB]

Danville might be the most culturally southern town in Virginia. In many ways, it's more connected to North Carolina than the rest of Virginia. It might pull for the Carolina Panthers over the Washington Redskins, it's even closer to Charlotte than Richmond. Also, it's common for Danville folks to work in the NC Triad or even the Research Triangle. I remember one comment I read on CD, "Virginia forgot about Danville a long time ago, that's practically North Carolina" and I can see that.

[RVAbornandbred]

JayJayCB,

There's some truth in your analysis. But...it's also quite dangerous to equate "lower class former mill town" with "Southern." I've heard many make the same observation that Martinsville, Danville, South Boston, South Hill, Emporia on 58 is the "Southern" part of Virginia.

But, a lot of people who say that tend to say it because those towns are dead, have no cultural vibrancy, and are extremely poor.

Southern culture was traditionally hierarchical, had a strong adherence to tradition, had high rates of religious observation, possessed reverence for agriculture, and obviously had a strong sense of white supremacy.

When you look at those 58 towns, you see remnants of agricultural reverence (but truth be told, the Valley and Augusta/Albemarle/Nelson are the big ag areas in the state nowadays). There's still some hierarchy, but the families who dominated those areas for centuries were also the wealthiest/well-educated families. You'd be surprised that in the past 20 years as those towns declined, how many of this generation's "top families" in those cities have moved away. My son went to college with a kid from Martinsville whose entire family had been doctors in the town for generations. The kid now lives in Atlanta. I know that a Danville mayor from a prominent family resigned a few years ago to move to Georgia. So....as the textile mills all closed and the economies in the area dried up, I'm not sure there's a lot of hierarchy left in those towns.

Tradition? Again...some remains in those towns, but a lot of those traditions have disappeared. The tobacco culture of farmers bringing their crops to town is over (I don't think there's a single tobacco warehouse that still operates in Southside Virginia). All of the festivals and shopping season associated with that are gone as well. That was the big event that spawned a lot of the tradition down there.

Religion? Can't say. White Supremacy? I won't get into that as I don't think this is the proper forum.

[nc919va757sc803]

Originally Posted by Deluusions

Williamsburg is southern, Newport News is definitely southern and so is Norfolk. I can understand VA beach but to say it lacks anything southern is false.

In my opinion after living here for years Newport News is not southern nor is norfolk or va beach. Williamsburg reminds me of a colonial town you would find in massachusettes i can see the southern culture clear there though it just doesnt feel southern. Norfolk i really dont feel any southern culture nor va beach you would have to explain that to me.Newport News has one southern area and thats lee hall you may see something i dont though.

[Babe_Ruth]

Originally Posted by CurlyFries

It is "Upper South"

Yeah.. and/or Old South.

My opinion, I think two factors are at work when people question, or discredit, Va's Southern pedigree.

(1) They believe only the deepest, Dirty South, constitutes the South. They're not aware of the cultural distinctions between the traditional Old South (the southern of the original colonies: Va, Carolinas, Maryland), and the later deep southern states.
(2) I think there are bigoted transplants (& carpetbaggers), who want to either erase Virginia's Southern pedigree, or are hoping it's going extinct. Bcuz they don't like the idea that they're living in the dreaded South (?)

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth

Yeah.. and/or Old South.

My opinion, I think two factors are at work when people question, or discredit, Va's Southern pedigree.

(1) They believe only the deepest, Dirty South, constitutes the South. They're not aware of the cultural distinctions between the traditional Old South (the southern of the original colonies: Va, Carolinas, Maryland), and the later deep southern states.
(2) I think there are bigoted transplants (& carpetbaggers), who want to either erase Virginia's Southern pedigree, or are hoping it's going extinct. Bcuz they don't like the idea that they're living in the dreaded South (?)

Yea them dirty carpetbaggers who have been here since the founding of Alexandria ruining everything. Don't they know their history.

Eyeroll. Virginia has always been a place where northern and southern people move to. This is nothing new. At some point you have to acknowledge that THAT too is part of the history. You simply want to focus on a single part of that history... the part that lost a war over stupid reasons.

[Babe_Ruth]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Yea them dirty carpetbaggers who have been here since the founding of Alexandria ruining everything. Don't they know their history.

Eyeroll. Virginia has always been a place where northern and southern people move to. This is nothing new. At some point you have to acknowledge that THAT too is part of the history. You simply want to focus on a single part of that history... the part that lost a war over stupid reasons.

Tyson, I never characterized carpetbaggers as 'dirty', I never focused on a single, brief component of Virginia history ( I referenced Virginia's centuries-long membership in the Old South).. I never mentioned the Civil War (carpetbaggers sprung later, from the Reconstruction era). These are all ideas that you projected onto my post.

I stated, there are anti-Southern bigots who try to demonize, and patronize, Southerners.. which you proceeded to do, right on cue.. Using sarcasm, exaggeration, and implicitly referring to secession as 'stupid'. /peace.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Yea them dirty carpetbaggers who have been here since the founding of Alexandria ruining everything. Don't they know their history.

Eyeroll. Virginia has always been a place where northern and southern people move to. This is nothing new. At some point you have to acknowledge that THAT too is part of the history. You simply want to focus on a single part of that history... the part that lost a war over stupid reasons.

The vast majority of the state geographically has a Southern culture, but there is next to no one there. The places where there are people and jobs are just a generic American culture.

[Skd1986]

I don't think of West Virginia or Virginia of being southern, but I don't think of Oklahoma or Texas being southern either and people from other parts of the country recognize them as southern.