MoCo school system vs PG school system - (all good vs all bad?) (Bethesda: renting, buying a home)

[Tiger Beer]

I think there seems to be a general consensus that ALL MoCo schools are ALL good, and all PG schools are ALL bad.

However, when I read a few things on MoCo, I hear there are a mix of some great schools, and also some bad schools. I haven't heard about PG with great schools, but often hear of a lot of bad schools.

Logically, as a 'system' based on taxes they generate. It makes sense that MoCo overall would have a lot more money for students/schools, etc.

But, outside of that (and outside of a demographics debate), is there anything else that would make them uniformally better or uniformally worse? Additionally, are there some noteable exceptions to the rules, places where PG has better schools than MoCo's worst schools, etc.

[RamblingMan]

TigerBeer,
Montgomery and PG counties have two of the largest and most diverse school systems in the nation. Of course there's going to be a gap between the best and worst schools in each district and it would be almost impossible to assert that the worst schools in Montgomery County are somehow better performing than the best schools in PG County. If you go to Schooldigger.com and check out the rankings for Maryland schools, you'll see that PG's best schools, like Eleanor Roosevelt, come in well ahead of many Montgomery county Schools.

It is hard to make direct comparisons between specific schools if their demographics are different. For example, if Flowers HS' student demographic involves students from an economically poorer, less educated demographic, it is possible that one could make a case that Flowers is in some respects doing a better job of teaching its students than schools like Winston Churchill in Potomac or Walt Whitman in Bethesda. (I don't know the figures and am not making that assertion, just raising the possibility.)

People who know a lot more about these things than I do can't reach any agreement about what causes these discrepancies, so I won't try. I will only note that it doesn't seem to be just money. As you can see from this link, Budget cuts take toll on student spending | Lisa Gartner | Education | Washington Examiner (http://washingtonexaminer.com/education/2010/10/budget-cuts-take-toll-student-spending - broken link) the differences on student expenditure in the region don't bear much relationship to performance.

[BBC99]

Eleanor Roosevelt has a huge science and tech program that kids must test into to receive the benefits. That really skews those test scores upward.

I use to live in PG county and in general, MoCo Schools are much, much beter than PG count schools.

PG county could be a hidden gem. Lots of land, great commuter access, and beautiful properties, however until they clean up the school systems, people will opt out of that area, esspecially with Howard, Montogomery, and Fairfax count schools being some of the best in the nation.

I'm thinking about buying a home in the DC metro and I can't buy a home in PG county for this reason.

[Five00NCSTNW]

PG's problem is that it doesn't have Asian kids, who'll most likely succeed academically in any public school system, to inflate test scores.

Not knocking Montgomery or Howard, but the best schools in each county have a large number of Asian students.

[Tiger Beer]

Just curious, what is the take on COLLEGE PARK, MD and their schools?

I suppose I could start a new thread on it, but since it's borderline PG/MoCo and in PG County...might be an interesting one for this thread.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by Five00NCSTNW

PG's problem is that it doesn't have Asian kids, who'll most likely succeed academically in any public school system, to inflate test scores.

Not knocking Montgomery or Howard, but the best schools in each county have a large number of Asian students.

First off that is just ignorant and racist. Second PG County has a good number of Asians. As a matter of fact, the southern part of county has a sizeable population of Flipinos (I actually grew up with a few), and other parts of the county has them. Regardless though, the performance of the school system has little to do with race.

It has to do with leadership and parenting. Superintendent Weast is a legendary figure in the educational world. He has developed a model for maintaining a school system and his work as well as his lengthy, consistent tenure has bode well for MoCo Public Schools.

PG has not faired as well. There has been about 4-5 superintendents in past 20 years, political corruption often plays a part aiding certain schools, and parents do not do enough to demand more. The reason why PG seems to have a few good schools is because that's where the energy is placed. A lot of the lesser known schools, particularly inside the beltway are neglected (Fairmont Heights), and some of the traditionally well-performing schools get a lot of effort put into it (Roosevelt, Bowie). If you look at the buildings like Friendly High School compared to Roosevelt it is night and day. Friendly parking lot is breaking apart, the fencing around the school is bent up and the school looks a mess. Roosevelt, as old as the building is, is well-maintained, is fixed up inside and out and doesn't look anywhere as bad as Friendly. I'm just talking about the physical appearance of the school building because it shows what's important. The leadership and the parents of this county don't care. That's why you see Bowie and Upper Marlboro always get newer buildings, equipment and resources because that's where the money and most of politicians live at. If PG was ran without the political mumbo jumbo, you would probably see a much more balanced and better overall product but instead you only see the focus on a few. And if parents cared more about their children's education instead of how big their house is, that would help too. Those have been the big problems, in my opinion.

[bowian]

Meatkins, I agree with you, but actually the parents who do care mostly send their kids to private school because they have the means to do so and because the schools aren't great overall. Those who stay with the public schools either have access to the higher ranked schools or can't afford private. Or they have special needs children. There are exceptions but that's pretty much the way it is. I agree that there are disparities in facilities, teacher quality and administration depending on where the school is located.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I think there seems to be a general consensus that ALL MoCo schools are ALL good, and all PG schools are ALL bad.

However, when I read a few things on MoCo, I hear there are a mix of some great schools, and also some bad schools. I haven't heard about PG with great schools, but often hear of a lot of bad schools.

Logically, as a 'system' based on taxes they generate. It makes sense that MoCo overall would have a lot more money for students/schools, etc.

But, outside of that (and outside of a demographics debate), is there anything else that would make them uniformally better or uniformally worse? Additionally, are there some noteable exceptions to the rules, places where PG has better schools than MoCo's worst schools, etc.

MoCo is getting poorer so we'll see how things shake out going forward. There are some good schools in PG. Elanor Roosevelt comes to mind. However PG schools taken together don't stack up well against MoCo or any other district in the area besides DC.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by meatkins

First off that is just ignorant and racist. Second PG County has a good number of Asians. As a matter of fact, the southern part of county has a sizeable population of Flipinos (I actually grew up with a few), and other parts of the county has them. Regardless though, the performance of the school system has little to do with race.

It has to do with leadership and parenting. Superintendent Weast is a legendary figure in the educational world. He has developed a model for maintaining a school system and his work as well as his lengthy, consistent tenure has bode well for MoCo Public Schools.

PG has not faired as well. There has been about 4-5 superintendents in past 20 years, political corruption often plays a part aiding certain schools, and parents do not do enough to demand more. The reason why PG seems to have a few good schools is because that's where the energy is placed. A lot of the lesser known schools, particularly inside the beltway are neglected (Fairmont Heights), and some of the traditionally well-performing schools get a lot of effort put into it (Roosevelt, Bowie). If you look at the buildings like Friendly High School compared to Roosevelt it is night and day. Friendly parking lot is breaking apart, the fencing around the school is bent up and the school looks a mess. Roosevelt, as old as the building is, is well-maintained, is fixed up inside and out and doesn't look anywhere as bad as Friendly. I'm just talking about the physical appearance of the school building because it shows what's important. The leadership and the parents of this county don't care. That's why you see Bowie and Upper Marlboro always get newer buildings, equipment and resources because that's where the money and most of politicians live at. If PG was ran without the political mumbo jumbo, you would probably see a much more balanced and better overall product but instead you only see the focus on a few. And if parents cared more about their children's education instead of how big their house is, that would help too. Those have been the big problems, in my opinion.

What's racist about the comment? Let's stop sugar coating what is going on. Asians do remarkably well in school as a group. Thomas Jefferson in VA is full of Asians as is Fairfax county.

There are some subgroup of Asians who don't do that well like Laotians and Hmong. Not sure about Filipino performance but I'm sure they generally do okay I know the community in Southern MD has been around since about the 30s so they are more Americanized.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by BBC99

Eleanor Roosevelt has a huge science and tech program that kids must test into to receive the benefits. That really skews those test scores upward.

I use to live in PG county and in general, MoCo Schools are much, much beter than PG count schools.

PG county could be a hidden gem. Lots of land, great commuter access, and beautiful properties, however until they clean up the school systems, people will opt out of that area, esspecially with Howard, Montogomery, and Fairfax count schools being some of the best in the nation.

I'm thinking about buying a home in the DC metro and I can't buy a home in PG county for this reason.

I believe the community reflects the schools. A lot of the school's time is spent on disciplinary issues.

I live near Crossland High School, I believe the worse in PG. Last week during the morning I dropped off some dry cleaning across the street from the school. About 20 kids were standing in front of an adjacent store shooting craps. Education is obviously not a priority for these kids so what can the school district do about that?