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But that's partially flawed reasoning. The existence of large amounts of open land doesn't have to affect the density at all, even though there may be a correlation. PG County is only 10 sq.mi. smaller than Montgomery, and has a lower density, but has less rural areas. Most rural area in PG County is concentrated in its SE corner bordering Calvert and Charles. The way PG is shaped facilitates this since no part of the county is as far from Washington DC as most of upcounty MoCo is, except for maybe the SW tip. Also, PG has only recently discovered the magic of dense development, despite having far better Metro (and commuter/Amtrak rail) access than any other county in the region.
That's a very good point. It doesn't guarantee that Montgomery would preserve its open space if it were as densely populated as Fairfax, but it does weaken my argument. I stand (partially) corrected
Yes, & P.G. yuck [I almost lived there]. Crime is getting worse & the more buildings are being built & stores, & people with not good Education try to get payed for nothing [steel].
It is like as the years go by things get worse, Amen.
Yes, & P.G. yuck [I almost lived there]. Crime is getting worse & the more buildings are being built & stores, & people with not good Education try to get payed for nothing [steel].
It is like as the years go by things get worse, Amen.
'God help us, & cannont wait till Jesus comes.'
Bob
*sigh* Crime is not getting worse in PG County, it's going down. In fact this year brought some of the lowest crime numbers for a long while.
I actually find it ironic to see that so many of you Marylanders have "Virginia envy" when I'm a Fairfax County resident who quite honestly doesn't see what the overall charm, appeal, or allure of living here is. I pay $1,135/month (plus utilities) for a 1-BR apartment in Reston, a sprawling mess of a suburb with limited mass transit roughly 18 miles west of the District. Sidewalks here are limited, as are curbs, shoulders, bike lanes, and streetlights, and, believe it or not, many of the NIMBYs here like it that way. In a few years we will have several Silver Line Metrorail stations in the Reston/Herndon area, and instead of embracing this opportunity to emulate Arlington's award-winning and brilliant usage of transit-oriented development to reduce traffic congestion and promote walkability I find myself being pretty much the only Reston resident supportive of wanting Reston to enjoy the same successes that Bethesda and Arlington currently enjoy.
I have been attending recent community meetings aimed at redesigning Reston's "master plan," and as I alluded to the NIMBYism in this community is unlike any I've ever experienced before. People seem to think that increasing density will lead to increased traffic congestion, when the opposite is likely to occur as more people/businesses/employers crammed into a smaller area will make it more conducive for people to walk/bike to more amenities. I've heard several people who oppose the Silver Line's arrival in Reston saying they don't want the "element" (i.e. "brown people") from the city coming here and reducing their property values. The last time I checked anyone owning a property within walking distance to a new Metrorail station saw their property values skyrocket---one would then think property owners adjacent to the Silver Line should be thrilled about their upcoming payday jackpots, no?
I really can't feel "proud" to tell people I'm from an area that thinks driving an SUV from your over-priced McMansion on a cul-de-sac to (insert random name of big-box store here) in a Saturday traffic jam equates to a good quality-of-life. Naturally things are different inside the Beltway, but in Western Fairfax County and most definitely in Loudoun County (where the NIMBYism is even worse than it is in Reston) I feel like I'm living in absolute hell. What options do these areas have for middle-class young single professionals who want to enjoy a walkable and sustainable lifestyle? None. Reston was indeed the closest to this I could find, and now that I've been here nearly seven months I can see just how wrong I was in this assumption---Reston is a large suburb (pop. 65,000) that has attempted to incorporate urban concepts very unsuccessfully. You can live in the town center in Reston and pay $1,500/month for a 1-BR apartment, but at that rate why not just live in Arlington and enjoy Metrorail access, proximity to the District, and plentiful non-chain business options all at your fingertips?
Fairfax County really isn't this magical Shangri-La that everyone from Montgomery County (or MoCo) should be envying. Our two major employment centers---Tyson's Corner and Reston---are the epitome of urban sprawl and poor long-range urban planning. Both cater to the automobile, both are very congested, and both are rather soul-wrenching. One proposal to revamp Reston is to turn the Dulles Toll Road (267) through Reston into a tunnel and build dense mixed-use high-rises atop it (and the new Silver Line). I'm supportive of this, as this will encourage growth in a responsible manner. Most other Restonians oppose this though, citing traffic concerns (as if Reston's former long-standing mantra of sprawling low-density development hasn't done enough damage with all of the congestion we currently endure).
I know some people think I'm just a windbag (or a dou*he-bag), but I know in this particular case I'm correct. If Fairfax Countians continue to want to emulate the Ashburn model of long-range urban planning, then traffic WILL become ten times worse here in the coming years. If they start adhering to my own principles of encouraging as much dense development as possible within walking distance of efficient rail and bus corridors, then we can limit the number of automobile trips everyone will have to make (thus reducing overall congestion). If I'm still living in my current apartment in a few years I'm one of many I've spoken to who will be walking to a new Metro station and taking the train to my office. That will be one less car congesting Route 7 twice a day. Fit as many people as possible into the smallest land footprint, and you can accommodate more people while preserving more open space. Why isn't this seen as a "win-win" by anyone else but me? I've become a villain in this community for the way I think, with everyone telling me "move to Arlington." Is the rest of Fairfax County doomed to be the sprawling armpit it is now forever due to the narrow-mindedness of its own residents?
Haha...Maryland has no comparison to that ugly nightmare called Chrystal City...yuck, what a nightmare with no greenspace whatsoever and ugly black highrises...MD does have some high rises but notice there isnt miles and miles of them with no end in sight...THATS the result of zoning and some growth control, something Northern VA is obviously lacking with their fear of "big govt"...The result is one 20 mile butt ugly commercial area that lacks any village green or neighborhood communities.....Ditto for the National Airport area...looks like Watergate is still going on there..Theres far more gentrification in VA than in MD.....I lived in New England where there are strict zoning laws and beautiful town hall green spaces and MD, dispite its problems, is far more like that than Northern VA....I think Northern VA just wants to be like Florida with endless strip malls..Maryland is far more progressive when it comes to the environment and saving wetlands and greenspace around urban areas..
Oh, really? Just what type of "gentrification" is going on in VA?
I thought gentrification was when someone bought a decrepit rowhouse in Balwmer and tried to pretend they were living on the Upper West Side or the Back Bay, not when another middle-class family from Ohio moves to Virginia in search of a job and buys a 1970s split-level in Chantilly or Centreville.
This is a pretty silly thread, since MontCo is still a pretty nice place. I can guarantee you, though, that if someone started a post "Why has Fairfax County Let itself go downhill" on the NoVa sub-forum, you wouldn't find every other poster trying to defend the area by comparing it to Maryland. Instead, the comparisons would be to other places in VA - most likely, Arlington or Loudoun Counties.
I have been attending recent community meetings aimed at redesigning Reston's "master plan," and as I alluded to the NIMBYism in this community is unlike any I've ever experienced before. People seem to think that increasing density will lead to increased traffic congestion, when the opposite is likely to occur as more people/businesses/employers crammed into a smaller area will make it more conducive for people to walk/bike to more amenities.
ScrannBarre, I largely symphathize with your post. However, I must disagree with this one statement. Those people are correct about increasing density and increasing traffic.
While increased density certainly has some pluses, the fact of the matter is the vast majority of people will not live, work, and play in the same place thus foregoing a car. The may walk to a dry cleaner or a restaurant on occassion. But all those people are going to have cars and they are going to use them each and every day.
Haha...Maryland has no comparison to that ugly nightmare called Chrystal City...yuck, what a nightmare with no greenspace whatsoever and ugly black highrises...MD does have some high rises but notice there isnt miles and miles of them with no end in sight...THATS the result of zoning and some growth control, something Northern VA is obviously lacking with their fear of "big govt"...The result is one 20 mile butt ugly commercial area that lacks any village green or neighborhood communities.....Ditto for the National Airport area...looks like Watergate is still going on there..Theres far more gentrification in VA than in MD.....I lived in New England where there are strict zoning laws and beautiful town hall green spaces and MD, dispite its problems, is far more like that than Northern VA....I think Northern VA just wants to be like Florida with endless strip malls..Maryland is far more progressive when it comes to the environment and saving wetlands and greenspace around urban areas..
I don't know if you were making a joke or what but it is not good that your region of Northern Virginia continues to add Good Paying Professional Jobs and High End Upscale Retail Chain Centers while Suburban Maryland continues to lag Behind of Northern Virginia in Professional Job Growth and Upscale Retail Growth. Because of the Anti-Growth Extremist Groups and the Suburban Maryland anti-Growth Lawmakers(most likely bought by Wealthy Maryland hating Political Organizations from Virginia) sabotaging Business Growth, Upscale Retail, and Highway Building/Widening in Maryland the Majority of Tax Paying Marylanders have to make Looong Commutes to Northern Virginia because Suburban Maryland lacks Professional White Collar Jobs and Upscale Retail due to the Anti-Growth Communist trying to ruin Maryland's Business Growth.........
Haha...Maryland has no comparison to that ugly nightmare called Chrystal City...yuck, what a nightmare with no greenspace whatsoever and ugly black highrises...
I guess you've never been to CRYSTAL (no h) City then... lots of parks in walking distance and right next to the Mt. Vernon Trail. Arlington County is also building a large park just north of the area.
MD does have some high rises but notice there isnt miles and miles of them with no end in sight...THATS the result of zoning and some growth control, something Northern VA is obviously lacking with their fear of "big govt"...The result is one 20 mile butt ugly commercial area that lacks any village green or neighborhood communities.....Ditto for the National Airport area...looks like Watergate is still going on there..
The "National Airport" area? What is that? There's nothing around the National Airport- it's separated from other areas by rail lines and the GW Parkway.
Quote:
Theres far more gentrification in VA than in MD.....I lived in New England where there are strict zoning laws and beautiful town hall green spaces and MD, dispite its problems, is far more like that than Northern VA....I think Northern VA just wants to be like Florida with endless strip malls..Maryland is far more progressive when it comes to the environment and saving wetlands and greenspace around urban areas..
Really? I was just in Laurel the other day and that place was strip mall city.
This is not an MD-bashing post though. There are some really nice areas in MD, just like there are some really nice areas in VA. There are also "strip mall cities" in both. My only point is that it's silly to paint a large area with such a broad brush.
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Hmmm....
