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Location: Standing outside of heaven, wating for God to come and get me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smarterguy
I always wonder about people's needs and wants when they try to justify needing a 150k income as a single person. I make about 90k at 29 and have so much extra money I literally don't know what to do with it (responsibly...). Even if you're maxing out 401k's and IRA's, that is a lot of extra money floating around that I hope they're not just spending...
But then I remember seeing every person on 395 and the GW parkway driving a new BMW, Audi, Volvo, or out shopping in Georgetown or even Macys, EVERYTHING is brand new, latest fashion, etc. I can't get over how much they want for a pair of Levi's jeans at the outlets, but someone must be buying them... I must have been born with some type of "frugal gene" because I still shop thift stores, Marshall's clearance rack, buy store display furniture, and drive a 12 year old car that hasn't ever given me a problem. I do fly out of DC about once a month or more, mostly in the winter, to some place warm though... my guilty pleasure. I consider my life to be pretty dam good right now, and I could be doing it on half my income. 60 more grand per year? Hello early retirement.
I am similiar to you. I buy my regular clothes atleast from Marshall's, TJ maxx etc... but I stick to Macy's and Jos A Banks sales racks for my dress/work clothes, I am a bigger muscular guy and I need good fitted dress shirts. I do a lot of shopping online. I am making just under 75k at 27. I am in the feds though, these nice 10k pay raises I have been getting every year will stop soon.
I want to be able to enjoy my retirement... (I think most people don't come close to saving anywhere near enough, 10% is a pittance - but this is a different subject); I don't necessarily want to pay for my kids college education in its entirety, but I do want to be able to help so they don't graduate with crippling amounts of debt. I don't want to buy my kids a BMW on their 16th birthday, but I would like to be able to give them an old car when they go off to college or help them get a loan of their own when time comes. I'd like my kids to experience other cultures and travel the world because these are enriching experiences, that quite frankly, are much easier to do when you are not married/working/have a mortgage. I'd like to be able to go to dinner with my wife and not have to worry about whether or not I can afford the salmon entree or a glass of wine, or worry that when my dishwasher breaks I cant afford a new one, I'd like to be able to make it home for dinner most nights of the week rather than stare at the dashboard of my car until the sun goes down. I doubt $80K a year in DC with 3 kids would come close to enabling most, or even some, of those goals.
To me, these aren't crazy aspirations or asburd luxuries.... I'm not looking to live in a 5,000 sq ft home or drive a maserati, or fly first class everywhere, or have a live-in cook and maid, or summer in the hamptons, or dress my kids from Saks, or buy them BMWs... I just want to afford my children an education, save for my own retirement and be able to spend time with my family.
But I thought you said you're raising a family living in Georgetown. To most people in the D.C. area, that would be considered a high-flying aspiration.
You probably live near U.S. Senators and stuff. lol.
But I thought you said you're raising a family living in Georgetown. To most people in the D.C. area, that would be considered a high-flying aspiration.
You probably live near U.S. Senators and stuff. lol.
Even that area would be considered WAY expensive for the average DMV household. That's why you think you need to be making $300K a year to raise a family.
I applaud you if you can make it there in the long run. It's like nobility.
Chicago...you don't realize how good have it. Seriously, there are many people who work more than 5 days a week and they cannot afford to sock away 5 percent for retirement--let alone 10 percent. There are working parents who would love to sock away 10 percent for a college tuition fund but they are unable to. There are working parents who cannot afford a fancy, schmancy day care service at $10,000 per year. Even daycare is a tremendous financial burden.
All it takes is one job loss. All it takes is one major health care disaster where the health insurance plan coverage comes up short--WAY short. Then, as the checking account begins to shrink, you rely on the credit cards more than ever. Next thing you know, you are looking at a five-figure balance in the credit card account. Student loan payments will be have to put in forbearance; thus adding a mountain of more interest payments years down the road. The bottom line is that saving money is really, really hard because expenses keep going up and salaries continue to remain flat.
As for investing for retirement, good luck to everyone. The days of getting double-digit annual returns because of Dot.Com Bubbles are over for good. The days of double-digit real estate value appreciation is over thanks to the Real Estate Bubble Burst and the lingering effects of The Great Recession. I see nothing but anemic growth in stock, bond and real estate markets for years to come.
And we are one big European sneeze or Chinese economic crash from hitting another severe global recession. Stocks get hammered across all industries. Real estate values begin to plummet to new depths. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Dude, life is good for you. You have a stable career and good health. As long as you don't blow all of your money on gambling in Vegas...your finances will take care of you and your family in the long run. Don't worry so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagotodc
Agreed...I'm always baffled by the argument of "it can be done on $X! I know someone who does!". Just cause it can be done, doesn't mean people *want* to... Sure, I could move to some far suburb out in Culpeper or something, commute two hours each way in wrist-slitting traffic, raise my kids in a 1 bedroom condo, save nothing for retirement or college, never take a vacation to something more exotic than the local public pool and probably do it all on $45K a year, but that's not the life I want.
I want to be able to enjoy my retirement... (I think most people don't come close to saving anywhere near enough, 10% is a pittance - but this is a different subject); I don't necessarily want to pay for my kids college education in its entirety, but I do want to be able to help so they don't graduate with crippling amounts of debt. I don't want to buy my kids a BMW on their 16th birthday, but I would like to be able to give them an old car when they go off to college or help them get a loan of their own when time comes. I'd like my kids to experience other cultures and travel the world because these are enriching experiences, that quite frankly, are much easier to do when you are not married/working/have a mortgage. I'd like to be able to go to dinner with my wife and not have to worry about whether or not I can afford the salmon entree or a glass of wine, or worry that when my dishwasher breaks I cant afford a new one, I'd like to be able to make it home for dinner most nights of the week rather than stare at the dashboard of my car until the sun goes down. I doubt $80K a year in DC with 3 kids would come close to enabling most, or even some, of those goals.
To me, these aren't crazy aspirations or asburd luxuries.... I'm not looking to live in a 5,000 sq ft home or drive a maserati, or fly first class everywhere, or have a live-in cook and maid, or summer in the hamptons, or dress my kids from Saks, or buy them BMWs... I just want to afford my children an education, save for my own retirement and be able to spend time with my family.
I admire the people who manage with less, kudos to them for making it work, its an admirable challenge to raise three kids with any income, much less on $80K... but I don't look down on those who make more and knowingly question the cost of kids. If anything I think its sad that we are in a place where debating children despite having a six figure income is actually a reasonable question.
On a related topic, I'm always surprised how many people b*tch and moan about the cost of kids when they chose to have them- often more than one. The choice to have or not have children should be made, first and foremost, with finances in mind.
I always wonder about people's needs and wants when they try to justify needing a 150k income as a single person. I make about 90k at 29 and have so much extra money I literally don't know what to do with it (responsibly...). Even if you're maxing out 401k's and IRA's, that is a lot of extra money floating around that I hope they're not just spending...
But then I remember seeing every person on 395 and the GW parkway driving a new BMW, Audi, Volvo, or out shopping in Georgetown or even Macys, EVERYTHING is brand new, latest fashion, etc. I can't get over how much they want for a pair of Levi's jeans at the outlets, but someone must be buying them... I must have been born with some type of "frugal gene" because I still shop thift stores, Marshall's clearance rack, buy store display furniture, and drive a 12 year old car that hasn't ever given me a problem. I do fly out of DC about once a month or more, mostly in the winter, to some place warm though... my guilty pleasure. I consider my life to be pretty dam good right now, and I could be doing it on half my income. 60 more grand per year? Hello early retirement.
Sounds like you doing well but stash that stuff away! I think Chris Rock, of all people said it best-- being wealthy is not about having money and things, it's about having options.
Chicago...you don't realize how good have it. Seriously, there are many people who work more than 5 days a week and they cannot afford to sock away 5 percent for retirement--let alone 10 percent. There are working parents who would love to sock away 10 percent for a college tuition fund but they are unable to. There are working parents who cannot afford a fancy, schmancy day care service at $10,000 per year. Even daycare is a tremendous financial burden.
I'm not saying that I don't have it well, I *do* have it well, and I know I'm incredibly lucky to be where I am.... my point was that *everyone* should be able to afford these basic things. It's a sad testament to our economic state that "socking away 5 percent" is NOT achievable for most of the US ....Being able to save for education and retirement should NOT be something that only those of us who make six figures can do. I think its a travesty that our economy has reached this state - and this is coming from someone who used to be in investment banking ! (so you know, these some sacrilegious words!).
In the 1950s and 1960s, a single income family was able to carve out a reasonable existence: home, education, pension, one car, food on the table. Basic needs were met, and savings rates at the time were higher than they are today. In 1960, the american personal savings rate stood at just over 8%, by 1980, it hit 10%. Subsequent to that, it collapsed, and depending on your source even went negative at one point. Regardless, its never recovered - even the most optimstic measurements put it around 6% today, and a lot of economists believe thats being driven less by actual changes in consumer behavior but more from shocks associated with the recession. A number of other factors - the rise of a dual income family, the shift in marriage age, loosening credit controls, etc - have all conspired to create the situation we now find ourselves in: only the "lucky" can save for retirement.
And thats **!@#* up.
Middle class folks should be able to save for retirement or ensure their kids obtain a quality education, or eat healthy. These are fundamental... basic things... that we should all be able to enjoy... The absurdity of this can't be understated; Our savings rate is now LOWER than savings rates in countries where universal needs are heavily subsidized or funded by the government (pensions, healthcare, education)... As for medical issues... Frankly, I'm no better off.... If I lost my job and had a major medical issue, it would bankrupt us just as surely as it would bankrupt someone at $80K.... Completely and totally. I think thats equally absurd - the fact that really only the truly rich can live life without the specter of a medical procedure destroying their families lives is just...well an appalling fact of our healthcare system.
I havent done a good job of conveying my points here, but I'll try one last time - I'm not saying I dont make enough, or that I deserve more, I'm saying that what I can afford should be things people at half my income should be able to afford, as they once did, and I think its sad our world has changed to a point where thats not the case.
Last edited by chicagotodc; 06-15-2012 at 04:58 PM..
What I learned from this thread, is that I'm still routinely amazed at the kinds of salaries people earn in DC.
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