are all Washingtonians 'aloof'? i.e. hard to get to know (Richland: rent, houses)

[Seacove]

There is definitely a difference between helping someone but maintaining a polite distance.

1. Almost twenty years ago, when my family (who took to the Seattle area instantly) moved here, we got lost trying to find an address for the storage company. We had a big truck and a car leading it going through windy residential roads. A gentleman stood just off the side of the street and asked if we were lost. We showed him the address and he said "I'll take you there, just follow me". We were embarrassed to have him lead us several MILES further south. How many strangers do you know who would do such a kind thing? We met as many people as we wanted but maybe we are aloof ourselves.

2. We had a work-related move to Colorado, and chose an upscale neighborhood in Littleton. The neighbors were so friendly they were waiting when I would get out of the car at the end of the day. I sped up the garage door installation so I could go in without being rude.

3. Back in Seattle and have never felt like people were standoffish, we're all about the same amount of "friendly".

Maybe it's the rain. Maybe the ones that feel comfortable here are the ones that are a little more to themselves. I promise you, no one will ever be rude. Four way stops are comical in their politeness. No one goes and everyone keeps gesturing for someone else to go. But it takes time to get to know someone as they have to keep being put in situations to advance the friendship. It's my understanding that the reason why British pubs have activities is that the British can be standoffish and the pubs help them get to now one another. The problem is, if it's real, and maybe it is, we aren't aware of it. Maybe because our goal is to be extra nice and polite.

[sofia76]

Maybe you can check out Edmonds. I've not been there, but I read in one of the Seattle papers that it's been voted Washington's "friendliest" city/town many years.

[JennieO]

Hmmm, so maybe my problem is having been raised in the Midwest where it was considered rude to speak up about yourself or even some to the extreme of considering it rude to ask for help... the thinking was you shouldn't put someone on the spot by asking them to do something because then they might be very uncomfortable if they had to say no or else obligated to do something they didn't want to do if they wouldn't say no. I guess out here people have an easier time saying 'no' since the polite thing seems to be the opposite? Just pondering here. I was always taught to wait for someone else to offer, of course back in the Midwest you didn't have to wait long before someone offered something... LOL Here it's been years, even at church. Now you've really got me thinking... I always just figured we are all Americans so all pretty much the same but this really looks like a distinct cultural change of thinking. Maybe my problem is a inability to pick up on the new cultural norms and thus I have been left in limbo... Perhaps most people move to the area and naturally pick up on the new unspoken rules.

I hear you about the politeness at stop signs. Heh. Most people out here are pretty polite drivers. The rudest driver around that I know is not from here, he drives my husband nuts by ripping up the road. I'm not sure the guy even realizes it's considered rude here since where I came from his driving methods were typical. More geographical culture...?

[j_k_k]

Seattle in general has a pretty non-confrontational culture. In some ways that's good, because it means you rarely have to deal with someone acting out. In other ways it blows, because there's a certain segment of the population that takes advantage of it by going Full Rectum, and inexplicably, if you confront the person who is going FR, Seattleites tend to think of you as at fault as much as Mr. FR. In Seattle, they really believe that violence and confrontation never solve anything, even when you violently confront someone who is being an off-the-scale jerk. If World War II had been left up to a Seattle mentality, we would have stayed neutral after Pearl Harbor, because violently shooting back and bombing their country never solves anything. (I'm only half joking.)

Seattle is the place where when the waitress asks you how was everything, she really doesn't want an honest answer unless the answer is 'fine, thanks.' Try it sometime; go someplace like Denny's at 205th & Aurora, where you know it's going to suck. When she asks, answer her honestly but not angrily. She won't know what to do.

But these are spinoffs of the reality that by and large, Seattle is polite as large cities go, if not very open. And no matter how much all the people living with me on the eastside are going to hate to admit it, Seattle is moderately representative of Washington as a whole culturally. Not emblematic, but there's a lot in common. It can be hard to get to know people in Tri-Cities too. But like in Seattle, once you invest the effort, you can make great friends.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by Seacove

There is definitely a difference between helping someone but maintaining a polite distance. ...move to Colorado, ... The neighbors were so friendly they were waiting when I would get out of the car at the end of the day. I sped up the garage door ... so I could go in without being rude.

... It's my understanding that the reason why British pubs have activities is that the British can be standoffish and the pubs help them get to now one another. ...

(and the marketing genius for Mike McMenamin; AS PNW natives, they enjoyed the pub culture on their 'post-college-VW powered-quest' and came home to make some dough off it.)

Good observations, and one can see the different dynamics and social expectations of the OP vs above. There is nothing wrong with either stance, but I can relate to the OP, cuz after 28 yrs in PNW, I have a few good friends, and get along fine with the PNW desire for space. I'm am more comfortable that midwest farming communities would care for me and my farm if I was to be bedridden for a yr. I'm not sure many of my PNW neighbors would even know I was out of commission, but not that they wouldn't care. I find the social dynamics of 'PNW 'social space requirements' indicative of 'Leave me alone'. In my prior life (Mtn states and Prairie) I had known about 3 people to ever have unlisted phone numbers. When moving to WA in early 1980's, 7 of our 10 neighbors in a semi-rural area were unlisted, and wanted it kept that way. OK, fine with me, as if I got tired of their dog barking all day and night I quickly learned the PNW solution to that. And if their drapes were pulled for a week while I thought they were home and may be sick, I just have to wait for the smell (done that too.)

Originally Posted by JennieO

Hmmm, so maybe my problem is having been raised in the Midwest where it was considered rude to speak up about yourself or even some to the extreme of considering it rude to ask for help... ... Maybe my problem is a inability to pick up on the new cultural norms and thus I have been left in limbo... Perhaps most people move to the area and naturally pick up on the new unspoken rules....?

Yeah, you have a problem , not to worry, but do let me know if you find a gregarious* place in WA (which I'm sure there are plenty, they just keep it a to themselves)

*fond of the company of others; sociable.

I get a good daily dose of midwestern hospitality and caring on a MN friend's CaringBridge website. He is dying of a rare cancer, and been posting for about a yr. Usually 20-30 responses a day from MN friends about how they enjoyed the church choir that day, or who had a baby, or what lake they paddled across, how many ducks, deer, or fish they bagged that day, or what they are going to do tomorrow to live vicariously for this weak friend.

His community choir has come to hospital to sing for him and strangers (like his charge nurse) take him out for boating adventures. This week the staff had a BBQ outside his room since he couldn't get up.

I would prefer to die this way, than alone in my house with my garage door and blinds closed to not be bothered by sincere neighbors.

BTW: we did the cookie thing and community BBQ's (Christmas, Thanksgiving, Memorial & Labor Day, homemade IceCream every Sunday evening for entire neighborhood for about 6 yrs). But it really made the neighbors uncomfortable, so we stopped. We did open our home up a yr ago last Christmas when we were all snowed in and our families could not come. About 6 neighbors showed up on their tractors, bulldozers and trucks. We had a great time, but haven't heard from them since (18 months).

Different strokes... not to worry

If you ever are in Seattle (I get there a couple x / yr), Note the long lines at the coffee stands and most in the queue are standing grasping their cups and silently shivering, but the only ones talking are those that came as a couple, or planned to meet someone there. (Garrison Keiler's recent Seattle monologues about this were so true). It really is just as comical as when you are in a LONG checkout line in a small midwest town store; and the clerk is cooing over babies, buying Girl Scout cookies from kids, bagging the groceries for grandma, asking about the health of some relative 2000 miles away, while a traveling PNW gen x'er is going ballistic waiting to pay for their stale coffee.

[j_k_k]

Seattleites would go nuts in Ireland. They'd see the weather, think it was just like home, then go into a grocery store and be held up for ten minutes while the cashier shoots the breeze with the person ahead of them about poor old Máire's chilblains. And they would think absolutely nothing of it, and not give a flying fornication who was waiting to check out.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by j_k_k

Seattleites would go nuts in Ireland. They'd see the weather, think it was just like home, then go into a grocery store and be held up for ten minutes ...

Seattleites tend to be sedated if they are in a Coffee or Donut queue.

(AFAICT, as I have a (very Late) 20 something kid there. It is fascinating to observe their different character traits and behaviors based on location (@ Home there, vs, back at Home vs, decades of history) ... (so funny ) I was there ONCE

[JennieO]

LOL Well this is reminding me of myself when I first moved out here. I worked in the restaurant and I was always getting in trouble for 'shooting the breeze' with the elderly customers (and sometimes others) who would come in. For my part I could not understand why no one cared to hear from them, and thought it would be rude to walk away from them. I particularly couldn't understand it because I never neglected my duties and only talked when everything else was done, but the bosses said it was bad for the restaurant image to have employee's standing around talking to the customers...even if all the work was done and the customers all had everything they needed. Never made sense to me coming from the midwest having grown up standing in those grocery lines! LOL Starting to make sense now though. I think I made a little dent before I moved on though because those folk became regular customers and complimented me to management. So I guess there are folk who would be more chatty if they had the chance.

[j_k_k]

It can be a little different if you seem to be having serious trouble. My wife has had three flats in her Washington travels, and each time a kind man has stopped or come over, helped her, and asked/expected nothing in return. The night I sent my wife off to Florida by air to see her dying mom, I had to drive from Kennewick to Seattle so she could meet up with her sister coming from Alaska and flying later than flights go out of Pasco. This meant three hours of driving, two hours in the airport (this being before 9/11) and heading for home around 3 AM. It's a three-hour drive.

As dawn came on, I pulled into Ellensburg in a bad way. No sleep, falling asleep at the wheel (idiotic of me), emotionally exhausted, in the early stages of grieving, and fricking starved. I caught a diner on the outskirts just as it was opening. I wouldn't say that I staggered in, but I surely looked as though I'd just come from some hell. I sat down wherever and a waitress came over, little slender early twenties young woman. She took one look into my eyes and said, "Oh, my God. What happened to you?" I briefly explained the situation. She sat down opposite me in the booth and spoke kindly to me for a bit after pouring the coffee. I was so bad off I couldn't even order. I just asked her to bring me whatever she wanted. I'll never forget the kindness and sympathy in her eyes, voice and manner. I think she would have hugged me and held my hand if she could have.

You can imagine the sort of tip I left. That was so far above and beyond the call some readers may find the whole story incredible, yet it's true.

Behind the reserve of Washington, therefore, is a very generous and kind side that tends to come out in crisis. Another good example occurred when a tremendous fire at Hanford began to burn its way into Benton City, a small town on the outskirts. So many people called the Red Cross that no one could get through, and when they couldn't, they jumped in cars and trucks and mobbed the place. Everyone was trying to volunteer. "I have space in my horse barn." "I have a guest room." "Here's a bag of clothes we were doing to give to the Goodwill." "We can take care of someone's dogs." "Here's $20." "Where do I go and what should I do?" They created an inadvertent dilemma in and of themselves for the RC office. My wife went, and came back reporting that there were three refugees and a hundred concerned citizens trying to find ways to do something kind. If it weren't for the fourteen or so homes that burned, it would be downright comical.

You'd find that just as quickly in Seattle or Spokane or Vancouver or, for that matter, Tonasket. Not that other states don't have people just as kind and helpful; on the contrary. It's just that in Washington, it comes out of the woods (sometimes literally) when it's most needed, and when you had just started to wonder if this was a terribly distant and unapproachable state full of people so intent on minding their own business they don't even notice life around them. It isn't. They just leave you the f*** alone unless it looks like you need help, at which time you're snowed under with them, each with his or her hand out, offering something.

[Alicia Bradley]

Honestly, I don't know where on earth these stereotypes come from. I think people in the Pacific NW are the friendliest in the US - the most likely to start up conversations (friendly ones, not creepy ones) with strangers, etc. The "Seattle chill" thing honestly just blows my mind, and I find it almost impossible to believe. I'm thinking maybe it's a bunch of transplants all being cold to one another, maybe...?