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AGAIN, I am not referring to Koppen, but more of a reality based statement on what most people really refer to "tropical" zone vs "subtropical". Most people don't imagine a tropical paradise having the capability of having a freeze, or even snow (which Miami has both had, multiple times). Therefore, my point stands. Please, unhinge yourself from Koppen for a moment and consider what I said.
Ian
I know exactly what you wanted to say, but I and most people will need some references that are authoratative, say Koppen or the NOAA.
The NOAA is even tougher as it classified Fort Myers as subtropical while Koppen classified it as tropical.
As I said, it all relative. If you think Brownsville is tropical, I will respect that.
I know exactly what you wanted to say, but I and most people will need some references that are authoratative, say Koppen or the NOAA.
The NOAA is even tougher as it classified Fort Myers as subtropical while Koppen classified it as tropical.
As I said, it all relative. If you think Brownsville is tropical, I will respect that.
I never said Brownsville was tropical. I agree its subtropical, as is Corpus Christi, Houston, even Dallas. But, there is a common sense role here too that needs to come in play, that I think you are missing. Thats why I go more for a general consensous on what tropical vs. subtropical is, rather than SERIOUSLY OUTDATED standards that have been set by the meteorlogical weather gods.
Perhaps a strong revision is needed. Would THAT change your mind if the Koppen rules suddenly said that NONE of Florida is tropical, minus Key West? Somehow, I doubt it.
I have been using Koppen because it's easier to read online, and occasionally NOAA but for some reason it takes more time to find info from NOAA.
So far, I only noticed a small difference between the 2, that's Fort Myers (there might be other differences but I mainly focus on tropical & subtropical FL).
When I have time, I will check out SE Florida to see where the boundary is for tropical/subtropical. But so far my understanding is Port St Lucie is subtropical whereas South of her is tropical, say Palm Beach county (Jupiter).
My definition of tropical would be where coconut palms thrive long term (50+ years). Borderline tropical is where coconuts thrive for years and fruit, but are killed by big freezes.
For the west coast: Ft. Myers and southward, but also including barrier islands as far north as Ana Maria Island. Borderline tropics near the coast up to Pinellas (to Clearwater Beach) and coastal Tampa.
For the east coast: South of Stuart. Borderline tropics extend to Ft. Pierce then off the mainland to Melbourne Beach and Cocoa Beach.
Inland areas are a bit more complicated because of the lake microclimates.
But for now, we have to stick with Koppen for the definition of tropical lol
I remember coming across an article right after the "record" cold Jan 2010, it clearly said some coconut trees in Fort Myers were damaged but survived whereas coconut trees inland near Orlando died.
Also, coconut trees thrive and fruit in Fort Myers, I saw some coconuts hanging on trees just before crossing the bridge to Fort Myers Beach.
If coastal Tampa is included, then Port Charlotte just North of North Palm Beach will definitely be tropical, coconut trees thrive along Port Charlotte harbour, I saw lots of them when I was crossing the bridge to Fort Myers.
But is coastal Tampa too cold to be tropical ? All websites said Tampa is subtropical, no exception.
The Wiki website for Fort Myers was updated by someone, it now claims the Jan average temperature to be 64.9 °F (18.3 °C).
Quote:
Fort Myers has a year-round warm, monsoon-influenced climate that is classified as either subtropical (by NOAA)[7] or tropical savanna (KöppenAw).[8] Notwithstanding the classification, the area has short, mild to warm winters, and long, hot, humid summers, with most of the year's rainfall falling from June to September. Monthly averages range from 64.9 °F (18.3 °C) in January to 83.1 °F (28.4 °C) in August, with the annual average being 74.9 °F (23.8 °C). Records range from 25°F to 104°F
My definition of tropical would be where coconut palms thrive long term (50+ years). Borderline tropical is where coconuts thrive for years and fruit, but are killed by big freezes.
For the west coast: Ft. Myers and southward, but also including barrier islands as far north as Ana Maria Island. Borderline tropics near the coast up to Pinellas (to Clearwater Beach) and coastal Tampa.
For the east coast: South of Stuart. Borderline tropics extend to Ft. Pierce then off the mainland to Melbourne Beach and Cocoa Beach.
Inland areas are a bit more complicated because of the lake microclimates.
But for now, we have to stick with Koppen for the definition of tropical lol
What parts of s. Texas would meet the criteria you've stated? I'm assuming Brownsville, S. Padre Island, but up to what area along the coast, Corpus Christi? Not sure if they have them growing there.
What parts of s. Texas would meet the criteria you've stated? I'm assuming Brownsville, S. Padre Island, but up to what area along the coast, Corpus Christi? Not sure if they have them growing there.
I would say Brownsville to South Padre Island meet the my definition of borderline tropical. I've seen a few pictures of coconut palms on North Padre Island (near Corpus) and inland in McAllen, but I doubt they survived the last arctic blast. All of these areas would support coconut palms long term if it weren't for a handful of cold winter days, that is the criteria I used for my definition of borderline tropical.
Here is a picture of a coconut palm in Harlingen (a bit inland from Brownsville), that was only protected in the 1996 and 2011 freeze according to the author of the picture.
Source: http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...t=cocoshgn.jpg
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