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Old 02-22-2013, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Everywhere I've lived the ground has always remained above freezing, if not at the surface than a few feet down. In the Midwest/Northeast US for instance they have basements and water pipes always come in below the freeze line so you always have fresh unfrozen water.

What do they do in climates where there is permafrost? It would seem a water pipe would get frozen, it would be impossible to keep the pipes from freezing up? I suppose they could heat the water at the water processing plant, but wouldn't that melt the permafrost (the reason why the Alaska pipeline is above ground)?

Obviously there are large Russian cities in permafrost locations, so I'm wondering how they do it...
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Finland
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I'm not an expert on the subject, but the problem is not the freezing of the water, but the water in the pipes warming the soil, making the soil unstable which may damage the pipes and electricity lines. Permafrost thaws up to several feet during the summer, so it can be a muddy quagmire under the ground, and in autumn as the soil freezes and hardens, the pipes can be damaged again.

For those reasons, the Qinghai railway in China is above the permafrozen ground on a 'bridge' so that the soil doesn't melt and become unstable. They seem to freeze the soil even during summer.

In Yakutsk, Verkhoyansk etc the utility lines are indeed above ground as well, for those reasons mentioned above. This applies also for buildings, as they can 'sink' in the muddy ground during summertime, they have specially reinforced foundations. (This is all I know.)

Perhaps an engineer or someone who know more can give you more precise answers.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Same thing for canadian towns in the far north like Inuvik, Northwest Territories.

All utilities are above ground and all buildings and homes on stilts.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
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Interesting. Where do they get their water supply?
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:53 PM
 
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In the extreme cold winters of Calgary, Alberta Canada shallow utilities are very common. This is made possible through the use of aggrelite or granulite as an insulating fill around water and sewer pipes. Aggrelite is an expanded shale with consistent insulative qualities which mitigates ground frost penetration. This lightweight aggregate has proven to be effective in Calgary for the last 30 years.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:59 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 3,604,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrium1 View Post
In the extreme cold winters of Calgary, Alberta Canada shallow utilities are very common. This is made possible through the use of aggrelite or granulite as an insulating fill around water and sewer pipes. Aggrelite is an expanded shale with consistent insulative qualities which mitigates ground frost penetration. This lightweight aggregate has proven to be effective in Calgary for the last 30 years.
Not needed today...Calgary is currently a super balmy 12C (54F).
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:28 PM
 
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We bury the water lines deep.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:26 AM
 
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You can bury the water lines below the frost line but it is far more expensive to do so.
The use of the aggrelite or granulite facilitates the use of a shallow depth of 2.7 meters or less which translates into significant savings on excavation and other construction materials.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:36 AM
 
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It is not much more expensive......the excavator is there....just a little more digging.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:07 PM
 
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More digging ....more labour......maybe more materials......depends on the scope of the project.
Sometimes the city specifications for a deeper depth can make a project significantly more expensive.
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