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And there are 150,000,000 citizens in the US armed with guns (which most Americans seem to not care about) with around 10,000 gun deaths each year... but Europe is in trouble because of very small number of radicals?
I know which place has more problems..
This is another good point. Gun massacres are literally an annual occurrence in the US - and the victims are always random. Admittedly, no single attack claimed as many as 130 lives but all together they significantly outnumber all terror attacks in Europe even during the dark days of the 1980s.
Those in glass houses should not throw stones.. Europe will take notice of America when America takes care of its own problems. As per usual I suspect this has more to do with race than it does with actual concern about Europeans who died in Brussels or Paris. In fact, I'd go as far to say that certain individuals on here don't care about that at all - they just don't like Muslims or other coloured people.
This is another good point. Gun massacres are literally an annual occurrence in the US - and the victims are always random. Admittedly, no single attack claimed as many as 130 lives but all together they significantly outnumber all terror attacks in Europe even during the dark days of the 1980s.
Those in glass houses should not throw stones.. Europe will take notice of America when America takes care of its own problems.
Of course Europe does have issues too, though. Just wanted to highlight that point seeing as lots of Americans like to think that they're always right, when in fact there are huge problems with guns/poverty etc in the US.
I think in the case of Belgium, a lot of criticism must be aimed at their authorities (although they are obviously a small country and understaffed) seeing as there is an area that is known to be a Jihadi breeding ground in Brussels, yet there are clearly several terrorist networks operating there. When the Salah Abdeslam guy was arrested the other day, that should have put security on top alert after it was reported that he would cooperate with the authorities.. an attack was always likely as he was probably likely to rat them out..
Thankfully our security services are far better, and due to us being on an island it would seem that it would be much harder to carry out an attack in this country. Unfortunately, I think it is only a matter of time before something does happen..
Theresa May can carry on talking her usual shyte about standing strong and how we will fight back, but what the **** is she actually doing? That tory w**nker sits there doing nothing and thinks that our costly bombing actions in Syria is going to destroy them.. in reality it is doing very little
Of course Europe does have issues too, though. Just wanted to highlight that point seeing as lots of Americans like to think that they're always right, when in fact there are huge problems with guns/poverty etc in the US.
I think in the case of Belgium, a lot of criticism must be aimed at their authorities (although they are obviously a small country and understaffed) seeing as there is an area that is known to be a Jihadi breeding ground in Brussels, yet there are clearly several terrorist networks operating there. When the Salah Abdeslam guy was arrested the other day, that should have put security on top alert after it was reported that he would cooperate with the authorities.. an attack was always likely as he was probably likely to rat them out..
Thankfully our security services are far better, and due to us being on an island it would seem that it would be much harder to carry out an attack in this country. Unfortunately, I think it is only a matter of time before something does happen..
Something might happen.. there's a high chance of it anyway, but like you say our security services seem to be more apt at foiling plans. For all my bemoaning of our government they're doing a good job at protecting us from terrorism. Then you look at Sweden which has taken in a significant number of refugees and always has done for such a small country but terrorism largely eludes it.
And yeah, Europe has loads of issues. Can't deny that.
This is another good point. Gun massacres are literally an annual occurrence in the US - and the victims are always random. Admittedly, no single attack claimed as many as 130 lives but all together they significantly outnumber all terror attacks in Europe even during the dark days of the 1980s.
Those in glass houses should not throw stones.. Europe will take notice of America when America takes care of its own problems. As per usual I suspect this has more to do with race than it does with actual concern about Europeans who died in Brussels or Paris. In fact, I'd go as far to say that certain individuals on here don't care about that at all - they just don't like Muslims or other coloured people.
I said before that cops killed over 1000 persons in the US in 2015. One thousand by law enforcement. As we saw in your graph, so many have never died in a year from terrorist attacks in Europe. To put it into perspective, in Vietnam on average 4000 US troops were killed in combat per year. So the police in the US is 25% as dangerous as Viet Cong.
Guess how many people the police in Finland has killed in the past 10 years?
Spoiler
Five.
And if both countries had the same population that would equal to how many a year?
Spoiler
29.
You're right in the second paragraph too. The Muslims are some weird boogeyman for most Americans and who just genetically hate the West, and especially the US. The Muslims have replaced the Communists, as the US is driven by fear. Fear sells, fear is profitable, fear gives the government agencies a free hand to tweak the law a bit, or a bit more.
In Europe our answer is: we are not afraid. Most of us who live in cities have Muslim aquaintances and friends. We know that they are normal people just like us, they are not scary by definition. It's only the terrorists and few real ghettos who are a problem. But in an US suburb where 99% of the populace is white and Christian, Muslims can be veeeery scary and uncharted territory.
Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head. Those of us who live alongside people of different creeds tend to be most at ease with them. In the UK, UKIP do best in areas where most people are white and old. In the big cities, they have no chance of success. People don't want to know them here. I do not feel threatened or uneasy living around Muslims and I doubt most people here do.
Quote:
At the general election last May all but two of these seats handed Ukip higher than average shares of the vote, from 44% in Douglas Carswell’s seat of Clacton to 21% in Gloria De Piero’s seat of Ashfield. These seats are filled with voters who share the core features of Eurosceptics – blue-collar, grey hair, financially struggling, and lacking qualifications. This is not a criticism, just a fact. Few Leave voters look like Daniel Hannan.
But these areas also look very different to those at the other end of the spectrum, where the Leave campaigns will likely encounter hostile voters. The ten least receptive seats are all in London – like Chelsea and Fulham, and Hampstead and Kilburn. Beyond the capital the least receptive seats in England tend to be younger, urban and more affluent or ethnically secure – Bristol West, Manchester Withington, Cambridge, Birmingham Ladywood, Sheffield Central, Reading East, Leeds North East, St Albans, Oxford East and Sheffield Hallam, to name only a few.
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 03-24-2016 at 08:58 AM..
And there are 150,000,000 citizens in the US armed with guns (which most Americans seem to not care about)
We have the Constitutional right to self defense. That will never change here as it shouldn't. Why should only the criminal to be armed?
Quote:
with around 10,000 gun deaths each year...
Yes we have inner city violence in America. That is where the vast vast majority of murders take place. Gang and drug related.... In my town there hasn't been a murder in decades... Many if not most of my neighbors have either guns, shotguns or rifles.
Quote:
but Europe is in trouble because of very small number of radicals?
Luckily for whatever reason, there doesn't seem to be radicalization of Muslims in America. At least not as open or as large as in parts of Western Europe.....
We aren't dick measuring here. Nations have problems. We certainly have our own. However Europe is now seeing a new problem, and this will only get worse if countries do not act together to stop it. The rise of extreme Islam. Do you think that blowing up an airport and a subway is no biggie?
I said before that cops killed over 1000 persons in the US in 2015. One thousand by law enforcement. As we saw in your graph, so many have never died in a year from terrorist attacks in Europe. To put it into perspective, in Vietnam on average 4000 US troops were killed in combat per year. So the police in the US is 25% as dangerous as Viet Cong.
American police are trigger-happy, but that's a silly comparison; the rate is much lower as the amount of troops was much smaller than the overall population
Quote:
You're right in the second paragraph too. The Muslims are some weird boogeyman for most Americans and who just genetically hate the West, and especially the US. The Muslims have replaced the Communists, as the US is driven by fear. Fear sells, fear is profitable, fear gives the government agencies a free hand to tweak the law a bit, or a bit more.
Europe has had just as loud anti-Muslim sentiment, if not more.
Quote:
In Europe our answer is: we are not afraid. Most of us who live in cities have Muslim aquaintances and friends. We know that they are normal people just like us, they are not scary by definition. It's only the terrorists and few real ghettos who are a problem. But in an US suburb where 99% of the populace is white and Christian, Muslims can be veeeery scary and uncharted territory.
Your last paragraph hits the nail on the head. Those of us who live alongside people of different creeds tend to be most at ease with them. In the UK, UKIP do best in areas where most people are white and old. In the big cities, they have no chance of success. People don't want to know them here. I do not feel threatened or uneasy living around Muslims and I doubt most people here do.
In the 2011 parliamentary elections and 2012 municipal elections when the True Finns had an strongly anti-immigrant agenda they did the worst in Helsinki, Espoo, Turku and Tampere. Most of the Southern and Southwestern coast was not good at all. The regions except Vantaa who has a proportionally "large" immigrant population. They did their best in regions like Eastern Karelia and Northeastern Finland, and inland Ostrobothnia, traditionally very working-class and except Ostrobothnia the poorest areas of Finland. Even I wouldn't live in those areas.
In the 2015 elections the True Finns pushed aside the anti-immigration thing and focused on populist "bloody elite" rhetoric, and did well also in the largest cities.
Islamic extremism is of course a problem, but the solution to that problem isn't just 'send them all away' or 'no more Muslims'. Extremists were usually normal children growing up in normal areas. These ideas were not instilled into their minds by their parents. Something went wrong along the way. That is what we need to address. Islamic extremism was virtually unheard of before even in areas with high Muslim populations, and quite frankly this recent wave of Muslim paranoia is not helping matters at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
In the 2011 parliamentary elections and 2012 municipal elections when the True Finns had an strongly anti-immigrant agenda they did the worst in Helsinki, Espoo, Turku and Tampere. Most of the Southern and Southwestern coast was not good at all. The regions except Vantaa who has a proportionally "large" immigrant population. They did their best in regions like Eastern Karelia and Northeastern Finland, and inland Ostrobothnia, traditionally very working-class and except Ostrobothnia the poorest areas of Finland. Even I wouldn't live in those areas.
In the 2015 elections the True Finns pushed aside the anti-immigration thing and focused on populist "bloody elite" rhetoric, and did well also in the largest cities.
Yeah. I don't think UKIP are so terrible, in many ways they're better than the Conservatives. They have an 'anti-elite' appeal, they should focus on that more. They have some good aspects - they support more NHS funding, decriminalized marijuana etc and unlike the Tories they don't want to take from the poor to give to the rich.
They just need to tone down the anti-immigration aspect and they'd probably do better in big cities.
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