Joe90 was right, veg defines winter climate (hot, warm, average)
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Recently B87 showed some photos of a very evergreen town on England's south coast, which is probably zone 9b, and yet interior UK is not so evergreen being 8b or even 8a in colder spots.
I got looking onto streetview at climates with differing ultimate winter low temps, and seems apparent the veg def changes as it gets warmer and warmer in winter.
Raleigh zone 7b/8a (avg winter lowest temp 10F)
Not much different than Cape May NJ at upper zone 7b (8-10F lowest winter temp)
Is this more subtle in continental climates than say Western Europe or the West Coast, or other examples of this in other parts of the world even a place like Australia?
That street view looks to be 8b, but close to the border with 9a
Pretty typical winter vegetation for most of southern England.
Give it another 10-15 years or so and London will seem a lot more evergreen than it currently is. Many plants that are suitable for the climate have only really started being grown in large numbers in the last decade or so.
I don't think it was ever up for debate that vegetation defines winter climate. The problem has always been that it fails to define summer climate.
Wouldn't cool weather loving plants do poorly in hot summer climates, or plants that need cold winters? I know some plants that do horrible in the southeast coastal areas like pears and apples and cherries. Not enough cold units. Tomatoes do terrible there in summer, too humid. lots of other examples.
Wouldn't cool weather loving plants do poorly in hot summer climates, or plants that need cold winters? I know some plants that do horrible in the southeast coastal areas like pears and apples and cherries. Not enough cold units. Tomatoes do terrible there in summer, too humid. lots of other examples.
I'm sure that's correct but the problem is that regardless of specific plants "mild-winter/mild-summer" climates have as much overall verdancy in winter as "mild-winter/hot-summer" do--and sometimes more. So you could make a plant-by-plant list but despite your efforts someone will come along and say a certain "mild-winter/mild-summer" climate is the same as Austin because of "what it looks like". Then when asked for proof they'll usually show a photo like this:
I'm sure that's correct but the problem is that regardless of specific plants "mild-winter/mild-summer" climates have as much overall verdancy in winter as "mild-winter/hot-summer" do--and sometimes more. So you could make a plant-by-plant list but despite your efforts someone will come along and say a certain "mild-winter/mild-summer" climate is the same as Austin because of "what it looks like". Then when asked for proof they'll usually show a photo like this:
Maybe the slight change in zones in the continental climates of the US is unique as it shows each area more green and verdant in winter than the other, all sue to slight changes in the average ultimate winter low temp.
I asked if it applies elsewhere, but maybe not. However, that coastal area of England B87 showed is far more green in winter than interior England near Birmingham say.
My contention, is that subtropical Is a label more appropriate for the biome/environment of a place, rather than the climate - places with mild winters/cool summers can have a subtropical environment, as do places with mild winters/warm summers.
My contention, is that subtropical Is a label more appropriate for the biome/environment of a place, rather than the climate - places with mild winters/cool summers can have a subtropical environment, as do places with mild winters/warm summers.
Would you rate "subtropicalness" on a scale? How does subtropicalness differ from hardiness zone then?
Vancouver is an 8b hardiness zone and so is Dallas, TX. Do they have the same level of "subtropicalness" on a scale?
I've seen places with mean minimums of -28C/-18F with dominant deciduous temperate vegetation. Then I've seen places with mean minimums of -15C/5F with a mixed forest hemiboreal vegetation.
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