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Old 05-11-2023, 02:34 PM
 
1,264 posts, read 2,441,708 times
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Often times in the east coast during summer we got storms developing which is said to be instability.
Can someone explain what is meant and what the process is for this weather?

I get that, heat rises, the more air gets warmer and the quicker, the more there is a difference between the surrounding air in terms of temperature which causes more air to rise more quickly which causes storms.
But if that is the case, then wouldn't we expect deserts to have storms daily?
They have the warmest temperatures, and they cool much more than the east coast at night.
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Old 05-14-2023, 11:55 AM
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Location: Tennessee
1,644 posts, read 899,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
Often times in the east coast during summer we got storms developing which is said to be instability.
Can someone explain what is meant and what the process is for this weather?

I get that, heat rises, the more air gets warmer and the quicker, the more there is a difference between the surrounding air in terms of temperature which causes more air to rise more quickly which causes storms.
But if that is the case, then wouldn't we expect deserts to have storms daily?
They have the warmest temperatures, and they cool much more than the east coast at night.
If there is WV (moisture) then deserts do indeed have wicked thunderstorm. Dry conditions, no storms. Except maybe a dust storm.
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Old 05-14-2023, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
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What I don't understand is how the Persian Gulf gets so humid with incredibly high dew points, but very little rainfall. On the other hand, the Southwestern US deserts get lots of thunderstorms in the monsoon season even though their dew points are modest in comparison.
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Old 05-14-2023, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
5,749 posts, read 3,529,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
Often times in the east coast during summer we got storms developing which is said to be instability.
Can someone explain what is meant and what the process is for this weather?

I get that, heat rises, the more air gets warmer and the quicker, the more there is a difference between the surrounding air in terms of temperature which causes more air to rise more quickly which causes storms.
But if that is the case, then wouldn't we expect deserts to have storms daily?
They have the warmest temperatures, and they cool much more than the east coast at night.
In the most general sense instability refers to how easy it is for an atmosphere to change from its current state to a different state.

Most of the time in meteorology though it refers to convective instability which is the propensity for an atmosphere to encourage vertical movement of air due to an imbalance in the forces which move air up and down.

A state of convective instability exists if cold air is aloft and warm air is at the surface because warm air wants to rise (since it is less dense) and cold air wants to sink (since it is more dense). Conversely, cold air at the surface and warm air aloft would be stable because each layer of air is already where it wants to be.

However, convective instability isn’t the only ingredient necessary for storms to form: moisture and lifting are also needed. Even if a desert region has a lot of low-level moisture (like the Persian Gulf) they're often lacking one or both of the other ingredients. Hence, few storms.
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Old 05-14-2023, 07:46 PM
 
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Ok so:

1. Why does the east coast get so many summer thunderstorms due to instability? I mean, if the temperature has been 90 degrees all week, then all the air should be warm. So why daily storms?

2. Wouldn't the US desert SW see a lot of storms, since the nights are cool and the days much hotter?
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Old 05-21-2023, 10:14 AM
 
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?
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Old 05-21-2023, 10:32 AM
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Location: Tennessee
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Instability
(abbrev. INSTBY)- The tendency for air parcels to accelerate when they are displaced from their original position; especially, the tendency to accelerate upward after being lifted. Instability is a prerequisite for severe weather - the greater the instability, the greater the potential for severe thunderstorms.


https://forecast.weather.gov/glossar...rd=instability
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Old 05-23-2023, 12:31 PM
 
120 posts, read 75,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudlander View Post
Ok so:

1. Why does the east coast get so many summer thunderstorms due to instability? I mean, if the temperature has been 90 degrees all week, then all the air should be warm. So why daily storms?

2. Wouldn't the US desert SW see a lot of storms, since the nights are cool and the days much hotter?

Both these questions were already answered above by Ed's post, read carefully please:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed's Mountain View Post
However, convective instability isn’t the only ingredient necessary for storms to form: moisture and lifting are also needed. Even if a desert region has a lot of low-level moisture (like the Persian Gulf) they're often lacking one or both of the other ingredients. Hence, few storms.
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Old 05-23-2023, 01:37 PM
 
120 posts, read 75,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_Anthem View Post
What I don't understand is how the Persian Gulf gets so humid with incredibly high dew points, but very little rainfall. On the other hand, the Southwestern US deserts get lots of thunderstorms in the monsoon season even though their dew points are modest in comparison.
The SW North American deserts don't look any different than the Persian Gulf/Arabian region, really. This is particularly the case when looking at lower elevations. For instance, look how bone dry things are in the lowest desert valleys of California and adjacent Arizona:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_...l_Park#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_S...fornia#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuma,_Arizona#Climate

And for all that "desert monsoon hype," cities like Las Vegas and Phoenix still average less than an inch of rain during those core months during summer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas#Geography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughlin,_Nevada#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix,_Arizona#Climate

And if you go to Puerto Penasco, you have a city right on the warm water of the Sea of Cortez that still is bone dry. You'll find the same effects going down the Baja till you reach around La Paz, Mexico (though lowland rains begin further north around Guaymas on the mainland Mexican coast)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto...B1asco#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Paz...ia_Sur#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaymas#Climate

Actually, the zone around Puerto Penasco, Mexicali, El Centro, etc is pushing it at times with the heat and humidity combo:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/weat...li-mexico.html

Honestly, the "SW desert monsoon" is pretty overhyped. The most dramatic effects that you have in mind really seem to be focused on higher elevations, especially radiating from Mexico's Sierra Madre Occidental mountains:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosal%C3%A1#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durango_(city)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisbee,_Arizona#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucson,_Arizona#Geography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagst...rizona#Climate

Most likely, the elevation + orographic effects contribute to the forcing of rainfall inspite of the ostensibly modest dewpoints ... a process that you can also find in Arabia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibb#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa#...hy_and_climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiz#Climate

Some (relatively) rainy and moderated lowlands there too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salalah#Climate

There's a possible mechanism regarding the interplay of the Indian and African monsoons that could have effects regarding how far monsoonal rainfall extends across the MENA region in general:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_humid_period
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Old 05-23-2023, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
465 posts, read 405,928 times
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I'm not sure...the uber-dry parts of the SW in the summer are mostly in rain shadows (sometimes multiple ones like the Death Valley), and I still don't see anywhere that averages 0.00 inches of rain in the summer months like many places around the Persian Gulf do. The Persian Gulf is also a lot more humid on average, with the highest dew points in the world having been recorded there. It is interesting though that there are some places in the Arabian Peninsula with wet monsoon patterns, and I agree that the SW monsoon is very elevation-dependent. I wouldn't call it over-hyped because there are some places like Nogales, Arizona, where more than half their annual rainfall comes from the monsoon season.
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