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Old 07-12-2013, 02:18 PM
 
Location: MI
174 posts, read 502,970 times
Reputation: 237

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I've been thinking of leaving MI for some time now. I have my mind set on one of the plains states either Nebraska, Kansas, or Oklahoma going to a mid-sized city. SD and ND are too underpopulated for me. Texas doesn't have many good mid-sized cities that aren't part of major metro areas, which will be more expensive. So it's between OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, and Omaha for me. I like a city to remind me of Grand Rapids, MI.

I've focused in on Wichita lately. The reason being that Wichita State is one of the only major colleges to offer a major in entrepreneurship. I'm going to graduate with an associate's in business management next year, but want a bachelor's. I know you can't be taught entrepreneurship but I feel being in the program will give me opportunities for networking and meeting potential business partners and associate's.

Another benefit of Wichita is the low cost of living. Apparently it has the lowest rent and housing costs in the USA among metro areas, most likely because of the huge amount of available land.

So what is Wichita like?

My impressions (correct me on any of these if I am wrong).

Climate: Cool to moderately cold in the winter, highs usually above freezing with moderate snowfall. Variable in the spring with lots of thunderstorms and occasional tornadoes. Very hot in the summer. Warm and pleasant in the fall.

As for the tornado risk I assume you learn to live with it. I grew up in the Midwest so I know the risk, although it was not at tornado alley levels there is always the possibility one will occur. I used to say I'd never move to someplace like Kansas but I recognize the vast, vast majority never get hit by a tornado, and if they do damaging F4 and F5 tornadoes are very rare. I also have come to recognize nowhere east of the Rockies and West of the Appalachians is truly "safe" from a tornado, even if states like OK, TX, KS, and NE have higher risks.

Culture: Mostly midwestern with a very slight southern influence, although less than Oklahoma. More conservative than the national average although less conservative than the deep south. Kansas is very Republican, but I've heard it is a "three party state" between conservative Republicans, moderate Republicans, and Democrats. Personally I am a fiscally conservative, socially moderate Republican.

I am not concerned about political craziness because Michigan is very politically polarized. On the margins Michigan Republicans are as radical as those in the south and great plains and very abortion/social issues oriented. Michigan Democrats are just as liberal as any in New York or Massachusetts, so there are not a lot of true moderates here anyway. If anything Kansas will have more moderate Democrats and Republicans although I understand conservatives are dominant for the time being.

Cost of Living: About as cheap as it can get in the USA for a city of its size. I really don't see any way the cost of living could be lower outside of moving to rural Mississippi or something. As far as I know there aren't many places in the US that are lower. I'd say we are at about the national average where I live. I've seen a modest but notable difference in Missouri and I imagine Kansas is the same.

Economy: Stronger than the nation as a whole but a bit weaker than the rest of the booming Great Plains due to the aviation industry woes since 9/11. It looks like a lot of civic leaders are working to diversify the economy away from reliance on aviation. Things seem to be recovering faster there than the rest of the USA, though it isn't "recession proof" like Omaha. I've heard complaints of a weak economy but unemployment in Wichita is about 6% versus 7.5% nationally, although Kansas as a whole is a half percent lower.

Crime: I've heard some mixed things on this subject. It obviously pales in comparison to the crime hot spots like Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis etc. but I have heard it is bad for a city of its size. Crime is declining nationwide, but it worries me that Wichita hasn't been part of the trend. How bad is crime there really, and what are they doing to get rid of it? What exactly is "high crime?" In MI when we talk about high crime we mean Detroit. I imagine Kansas standards are different since you don't really have any massively blighted dump cities like we have in Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois.

Stuff to Do: Wichita is "boring" by how the media defines it. However what truly is exciting? Is New York or Chicago somehow better because they have more coffee shops and nightclubs? To me huge cities seem to simply have more duplicates and higher end versions of the same things you find in mid-sized cities. I like a mid-sized city. I grew up in a town where everyone knows everyone's business. On the other hand Chicago and even someplace like Indianapolis is simply too big for me. Wichita is big enough to give me anonymity and services but small enough to avoid high costs, traffic, and other big city problems.
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Old 07-12-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,544,081 times
Reputation: 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARPARP View Post
I've been thinking of leaving MI for some time now. I have my mind set on one of the plains states either Nebraska, Kansas, or Oklahoma going to a mid-sized city. SD and ND are too underpopulated for me. Texas doesn't have many good mid-sized cities that aren't part of major metro areas, which will be more expensive. So it's between OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, and Omaha for me. I like a city to remind me of Grand Rapids, MI.

I've focused in on Wichita lately. The reason being that Wichita State is one of the only major colleges to offer a major in entrepreneurship. I'm going to graduate with an associate's in business management next year, but want a bachelor's. I know you can't be taught entrepreneurship but I feel being in the program will give me opportunities for networking and meeting potential business partners and associate's.

Another benefit of Wichita is the low cost of living. Apparently it has the lowest rent and housing costs in the USA among metro areas, most likely because of the huge amount of available land.

So what is Wichita like?

My impressions (correct me on any of these if I am wrong).

Climate: Cool to moderately cold in the winter, highs usually above freezing with moderate snowfall. Variable in the spring with lots of thunderstorms and occasional tornadoes. Very hot in the summer. Warm and pleasant in the fall.

As for the tornado risk I assume you learn to live with it. I grew up in the Midwest so I know the risk, although it was not at tornado alley levels there is always the possibility one will occur. I used to say I'd never move to someplace like Kansas but I recognize the vast, vast majority never get hit by a tornado, and if they do damaging F4 and F5 tornadoes are very rare. I also have come to recognize nowhere east of the Rockies and West of the Appalachians is truly "safe" from a tornado, even if states like OK, TX, KS, and NE have higher risks.

Culture: Mostly midwestern with a very slight southern influence, although less than Oklahoma. More conservative than the national average although less conservative than the deep south. Kansas is very Republican, but I've heard it is a "three party state" between conservative Republicans, moderate Republicans, and Democrats. Personally I am a fiscally conservative, socially moderate Republican.

I am not concerned about political craziness because Michigan is very politically polarized. On the margins Michigan Republicans are as radical as those in the south and great plains and very abortion/social issues oriented. Michigan Democrats are just as liberal as any in New York or Massachusetts, so there are not a lot of true moderates here anyway. If anything Kansas will have more moderate Democrats and Republicans although I understand conservatives are dominant for the time being.

Cost of Living: About as cheap as it can get in the USA for a city of its size. I really don't see any way the cost of living could be lower outside of moving to rural Mississippi or something. As far as I know there aren't many places in the US that are lower. I'd say we are at about the national average where I live. I've seen a modest but notable difference in Missouri and I imagine Kansas is the same.

Economy: Stronger than the nation as a whole but a bit weaker than the rest of the booming Great Plains due to the aviation industry woes since 9/11. It looks like a lot of civic leaders are working to diversify the economy away from reliance on aviation. Things seem to be recovering faster there than the rest of the USA, though it isn't "recession proof" like Omaha. I've heard complaints of a weak economy but unemployment in Wichita is about 6% versus 7.5% nationally, although Kansas as a whole is a half percent lower.

Crime: I've heard some mixed things on this subject. It obviously pales in comparison to the crime hot spots like Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis etc. but I have heard it is bad for a city of its size. Crime is declining nationwide, but it worries me that Wichita hasn't been part of the trend. How bad is crime there really, and what are they doing to get rid of it? What exactly is "high crime?" In MI when we talk about high crime we mean Detroit. I imagine Kansas standards are different since you don't really have any massively blighted dump cities like we have in Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois.

Stuff to Do: Wichita is "boring" by how the media defines it. However what truly is exciting? Is New York or Chicago somehow better because they have more coffee shops and nightclubs? To me huge cities seem to simply have more duplicates and higher end versions of the same things you find in mid-sized cities. I like a mid-sized city. I grew up in a town where everyone knows everyone's business. On the other hand Chicago and even someplace like Indianapolis is simply too big for me. Wichita is big enough to give me anonymity and services but small enough to avoid high costs, traffic, and other big city problems.
You would be wise to check out the Kansas City metro instead of Wichita if you insist on moving to the Great Plains. You can find places in KC that have a COL that is quite similar to Wichita but a much larger selection of job opportunities. Also, it won't be nearly as big of a culture shock overall as I am quite familiar with western Michigan. Wichita has NOTHING at all in common with western Michigan overall. The Great Lakes region and the Great Plains region have far more differences than similarities. Usually people prefer one over the other but rarely both. I would also recommend looking into Des Moines, Sioux Falls, Minneapolis, and Madison.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:17 PM
 
Location: MI
174 posts, read 502,970 times
Reputation: 237
GraniteStater, you have many good ideas.

Kansas City is a bit too large for my taste.

Finally I'm not worried about the "culture" per se. I don't see how it could be a culture shock. It has much different scenery, however are people in Wichita radically different from people in West Michigan?

Secondly my whole reason for going to Wichita would be Wichita State's entrepreneurship program. UW-Madison doesn't have one, Minneapolis is too expensive, and Des Moines and Sioux Falls don't have public colleges at all.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,544,081 times
Reputation: 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARPARP View Post
GraniteStater, you have many good ideas.

Kansas City is a bit too large for my taste.

Finally I'm not worried about the "culture" per se. I don't see how it could be a culture shock. It has much different scenery, however are people in Wichita radically different from people in West Michigan?

Secondly my whole reason for going to Wichita would be Wichita State's entrepreneurship program. UW-Madison doesn't have one, Minneapolis is too expensive, and Des Moines and Sioux Falls don't have public colleges at all.
Ok, that sounds like a good plan if you have a program lined up at WSU. Have you found similar programs in other cities within your desired region?
To clarify, I think both Wichita and western Michigan are quite socially conservative, but Wichita has an even greater Bible Belt influences and is even more socially conservative- it makes even the more conservative areas of Michigan look quite moderate by comparison.
Also, Kansas City metro area has a plethora of smaller cities and towns that are within easy driving distance to job opportunities. Missouri tends to have a lower overall COL than the suburbs of Kansas overall. Wichita is very dependent on the aviation industry for its economic health as I'm sure you're aware... It goes through cycles of booms and busts. That is one of the reasons why costs are low, its economics. Also, it seems as though MOST of the "growth" in Wichita is all along the far periphery of the city and its suburbs. It has most of the same generic suburban built environment and shopping as most cities its size. As usual you want to visit to get a full flavor of all the differences compared to Michigan.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:53 PM
 
Location: MI
174 posts, read 502,970 times
Reputation: 237
I expect social conservatism to come into play. I don't mind it as much. I'm a fiscally conservative, socially apathetic Republican of convenience (in other words the candidate I support is usually a Republican, but I am not a partisan warrior who sits around listening to Rush Limbaugh all day and praying Republicans win every single seat). I honestly don't care much about gay marriage and the like. I get sick of people around here getting riled up about it but I'd be equally sick of people doing the same in the eastern coastal cities. However I can tolerate anyone's perspective.

I consider myself to be a religious person. I am Protestant. I suspect the difference in social conservatism in West Michigan and Wichita is that West Michigan is more Reformed Calvinist oriented, and thus more staid, whereas Wichita is going to be more influenced by a more Baptist/megachurch oriented Christianity, part of the southern influences leaking in. In my general rule West Michigan people and Southerners are equally socially conservative and Christian, but Southerners are more likely to be the type who put up a cross or a ten commandments monument next to he roadside and saying "praise the Lord" and "God bless you" a lot. I imagine Wichita is sort of between those two mentalities, but closer to the Southern mentality.

The benefits of Kansas are its tax system, as it exempts all pass-through business income. This is controversial but will benefit entrepreneurs. It seems like taxes and permits are simpler there.

The aviation aspect concerns me. It seems things are on the upswing now and it is below the national average by about a percent on unemployment, but it climbed pretty high in the recession and after 9/11. This is exactly what happens with the auto industry in Michigan. Economically Omaha is a lot better, but from what I've read there is a big push by business leaders in Wichita to diversify the economy. I think they've accepted after 9/11 they can't rely on one industry. West Michigan is finally "getting it" and putting more of their eggs into health care and education jobs as well as non-automotive manufacturing. The Detroit unfortunately is so deep in its malaise and continues to bank on the Big Three coming back, which they are but once again it is cyclical. I feel like the nation is on the "upswing" for now. We saw a lot of toxic assets liquidated so I think we are a ways from the next peak leading to the trough.

As long as I see improvement on the diversification front I'm willing to take the risk. I've been following the local media in the areas I'm considering, and I see good things happening in Wichita. The Chamber of Commerce there is actively working on diversification issues.

Finally Kansas is passing a slew of pro-business reforms. Sam Brownback wants to be the "next Texas." Some people say it leads to a race to the bottom on social services, but in the case of Texas it has actually worked to attract industry. Kansas no doubt is a cheaper cost of doing business than Texas even if taxes are a bit higher. Even though Texas has its sheer size and will always run ahead of Kansas for that reason, some companies may choose to relocate to Kansas instead due to lower business costs and the pass-through income exemption (basically if you are an S-corp in Kansas you will not be taxed on extra income that is passed through to the owners, avoiding double taxation, while Kansas has an income tax on small business taxes it is the lowest in the nation).

Finally the type of job I am looking for is going to be a "college" student type job. Maybe retail or restaurant. Wichita has the lowest rent in the USA, so this is a plus. Finally I can save a lot on my transportation costs since Michigan has the highest auto insurance (twice the average) and worst roads in the nation, whereas Kansas has the second best. I estimate I can cut my expenses for insurance and car care by 50% or more by moving to Kansas, and cut housing expenses by about 10%. I imagine food expenses will be equal. The basic price of some things will be lower in Kansas since it is closer to the food source in the breadbasket of America, however Kansas does tax food whereas Michigan does not, so it will be even. Utilities will probably even out as well. I expect to run my air conditioning more, however I will use less heat since it is about ten degrees warmer on average in a given season, not much but it makes a difference, I will also use less light because there are fewer overcast days.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:12 PM
 
Location: augusta, ks
49 posts, read 80,229 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARPARP View Post
I've been thinking of leaving MI for some time now. I have my mind set on one of the plains states either Nebraska, Kansas, or Oklahoma going to a mid-sized city. SD and ND are too underpopulated for me. Texas doesn't have many good mid-sized cities that aren't part of major metro areas, which will be more expensive. So it's between OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, and Omaha for me. I like a city to remind me of Grand Rapids, MI.

I've focused in on Wichita lately. The reason being that Wichita State is one of the only major colleges to offer a major in entrepreneurship. I'm going to graduate with an associate's in business management next year, but want a bachelor's. I know you can't be taught entrepreneurship but I feel being in the program will give me opportunities for networking and meeting potential business partners and associate's.

Another benefit of Wichita is the low cost of living. Apparently it has the lowest rent and housing costs in the USA among metro areas, most likely because of the huge amount of available land.

So what is Wichita like?

My impressions (correct me on any of these if I am wrong).

Climate: Cool to moderately cold in the winter, highs usually above freezing with moderate snowfall. Variable in the spring with lots of thunderstorms and occasional tornadoes. Very hot in the summer. Warm and pleasant in the fall.

As for the tornado risk I assume you learn to live with it. I grew up in the Midwest so I know the risk, although it was not at tornado alley levels there is always the possibility one will occur. I used to say I'd never move to someplace like Kansas but I recognize the vast, vast majority never get hit by a tornado, and if they do damaging F4 and F5 tornadoes are very rare. I also have come to recognize nowhere east of the Rockies and West of the Appalachians is truly "safe" from a tornado, even if states like OK, TX, KS, and NE have higher risks.

Culture: Mostly midwestern with a very slight southern influence, although less than Oklahoma. More conservative than the national average although less conservative than the deep south. Kansas is very Republican, but I've heard it is a "three party state" between conservative Republicans, moderate Republicans, and Democrats. Personally I am a fiscally conservative, socially moderate Republican.

I am not concerned about political craziness because Michigan is very politically polarized. On the margins Michigan Republicans are as radical as those in the south and great plains and very abortion/social issues oriented. Michigan Democrats are just as liberal as any in New York or Massachusetts, so there are not a lot of true moderates here anyway. If anything Kansas will have more moderate Democrats and Republicans although I understand conservatives are dominant for the time being.

Cost of Living: About as cheap as it can get in the USA for a city of its size. I really don't see any way the cost of living could be lower outside of moving to rural Mississippi or something. As far as I know there aren't many places in the US that are lower. I'd say we are at about the national average where I live. I've seen a modest but notable difference in Missouri and I imagine Kansas is the same.

Economy: Stronger than the nation as a whole but a bit weaker than the rest of the booming Great Plains due to the aviation industry woes since 9/11. It looks like a lot of civic leaders are working to diversify the economy away from reliance on aviation. Things seem to be recovering faster there than the rest of the USA, though it isn't "recession proof" like Omaha. I've heard complaints of a weak economy but unemployment in Wichita is about 6% versus 7.5% nationally, although Kansas as a whole is a half percent lower.

Crime: I've heard some mixed things on this subject. It obviously pales in comparison to the crime hot spots like Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis etc. but I have heard it is bad for a city of its size. Crime is declining nationwide, but it worries me that Wichita hasn't been part of the trend. How bad is crime there really, and what are they doing to get rid of it? What exactly is "high crime?" In MI when we talk about high crime we mean Detroit. I imagine Kansas standards are different since you don't really have any massively blighted dump cities like we have in Michigan, Ohio, and Illinois.

Stuff to Do: Wichita is "boring" by how the media defines it. However what truly is exciting? Is New York or Chicago somehow better because they have more coffee shops and nightclubs? To me huge cities seem to simply have more duplicates and higher end versions of the same things you find in mid-sized cities. I like a mid-sized city. I grew up in a town where everyone knows everyone's business. On the other hand Chicago and even someplace like Indianapolis is simply too big for me. Wichita is big enough to give me anonymity and services but small enough to avoid high costs, traffic, and other big city problems.

I am just 10 mile east of Wichita and lived here for about seven years. Originally from the east cost (Ohio, Pennslyvania, Virginia), but also lived in Hays, Kansas for about 12 years. IMOP, it would rather lived in Hays over Wichita only because it is not near a big city.

Let's move on the personal stuff. Wichita State does have one of the best business programs in the nation. They work closely with SBA with Kansas so there are a lot of contacts you have going. Downside with WSU is tuition. They just increase it 8.2 % heights in the state. Be advise of the Governer we have, He is not very supportive of education. So if you planned on attending WSU for a few years, be ready for tuition hike every year around 7-8%.

As for things to do. Yea, not a whole lot. You are within three hours from Kansas City, KU, K-State, OSU, OU, Oklahoma City, over a dozen lakes. So there are places you can go for recreation, sports, ect. Branson, Mo, White River lake, Table rock lake and the Ozarks are about 5 hours.

Economy: Witchita still hanging on. Boeing Avation HQ is leaving us after 80 years so that will hurt them. However, we are growing on retail business. Cabela's moved in last year and more other retail are coming in that has never been established in the city or state. South of Wichita (20 miles) is the Kansas Casino. There are other industrial companies are making there way in or around Wichita. One of them maybe firearms and ammo factory now that Kansas pass a bill that ignores any Federal gun bill that gets pass.
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:33 AM
 
Location: MI
174 posts, read 502,970 times
Reputation: 237
I plan on attending WSU part time for a few entrepreneurship classes. I'm not going for a full degree there I don't think.

Looking at Kansas one of my worries is about Brownback going too far on tax cuts gutting education etc. However it seems they went way too far in 2012 but it looks like they moderated it in 2013. I guess the problem with education is you have one segment of the population that thinks paying taxes for anything is absurd, and then you have university people who want to pad their own salaries. Neither side is blinking. This is a problem around the entire USA. Also WSU's tuition won't matter for me because I think I'd be an out of state student at the time so I'd pay a higher rate, unless I decided to live in Kansas for a year before attending.

I understand Brownback is not all that popular even for a deeply Republican state. He is not popular enough to lose although my hope is he will be put in check with some legislative defeats. My hope is that Kansas has enough of a residual moderate Republican tradition that can make a comeback and prevent it from turning into another Mississippi. After all it is the home of Bob Dole and Dwight Eisenhower.

I thought Boeing was already gone from Wichita as of last year and the job cuts already happened. Finally I heard the other aviation companies are expanding. Once again I think Brownback's approach is a double edged sword, it may harm Kansas on the education front but may actually attract more companies. I think what he is banking on is something like Rick Perry, increasing revenue by cutting taxes due to increasing the number of jobs. I think he needs to be careful, as Kansas doesn't have a massive oil supply or major international port, however.

With Washington dysfunctional it seems that a few states are trying to turn themselves into ideological models. I know Brownback wants to turn Kansas into a "model red state." It seems California is trying to turn itself into a model of what a liberal America can be. Both seem to be having mixed results. Kansas economy has become more attractive to business but education has been cut. California has erased its massive deficits with huge tax increases however it may be driving business out.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,544,081 times
Reputation: 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARPARP View Post
I plan on attending WSU part time for a few entrepreneurship classes. I'm not going for a full degree there I don't think.

Looking at Kansas one of my worries is about Brownback going too far on tax cuts gutting education etc. However it seems they went way too far in 2012 but it looks like they moderated it in 2013. I guess the problem with education is you have one segment of the population that thinks paying taxes for anything is absurd, and then you have university people who want to pad their own salaries. Neither side is blinking. This is a problem around the entire USA. Also WSU's tuition won't matter for me because I think I'd be an out of state student at the time so I'd pay a higher rate, unless I decided to live in Kansas for a year before attending.

I understand Brownback is not all that popular even for a deeply Republican state. He is not popular enough to lose although my hope is he will be put in check with some legislative defeats. My hope is that Kansas has enough of a residual moderate Republican tradition that can make a comeback and prevent it from turning into another Mississippi. After all it is the home of Bob Dole and Dwight Eisenhower.

I thought Boeing was already gone from Wichita as of last year and the job cuts already happened. Finally I heard the other aviation companies are expanding. Once again I think Brownback's approach is a double edged sword, it may harm Kansas on the education front but may actually attract more companies. I think what he is banking on is something like Rick Perry, increasing revenue by cutting taxes due to increasing the number of jobs. I think he needs to be careful, as Kansas doesn't have a massive oil supply or major international port, however.

With Washington dysfunctional it seems that a few states are trying to turn themselves into ideological models. I know Brownback wants to turn Kansas into a "model red state." It seems California is trying to turn itself into a model of what a liberal America can be. Both seem to be having mixed results. Kansas economy has become more attractive to business but education has been cut. California has erased its massive deficits with huge tax increases however it may be driving business out.
Brownback modeling the "Texas Approach" will never work in Kansas unless he wishes to hollow out the remainder of the state and make everything all about cheap labor and costs at the expense of retaining and growing a talented educated populace. The only area of the state that is retaining job growth and college graduates is Johnson County, KS. The two university towns, Lawrence and Manhattan, have been growing in population and have seen a steady influx of students, but job growth has been negative for a long time. Wichita has about the same number of jobs now that it did in 2000. That is the number one reason why the cost of living has remained low. The only reason why the population continues to grow in Wichita is mainly due to the very very high birth rate compared to most other areas of the US.

"My hope is that Kansas has enough of a residual moderate Republican tradition that can make a comeback and prevent it from turning into another Mississippi. After all it is the home of Bob Dole and Dwight Eisenhower."

I wouldn't hold my breath. The moderates and liberals have been fleeing Kansas for a long time and I don't really see that changing. This is a big reason why the state has gotten more and more conservative over time with the exception of far eastern Kansas near Kansas City. The southwest 1/4 of the state already has demographics that are just like Texas - so the way the jobs market is structured and the economics of commercial agriculture in SW Kansas is quite similar to the Texas panhandle. If you read up on some historical info the "Great Cattle Drives" of the late 1800s Dodge City was a key geographical outpost in the region.

Last edited by GraniteStater; 07-13-2013 at 08:49 PM..
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:59 PM
 
Location: augusta, ks
49 posts, read 80,229 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Brownback modeling the "Texas Approach" will never work in Kansas unless he wishes to hollow out the remainder of the state and make everything all about cheap labor and costs at the expense of retaining and growing a talented educated populace. The only area of the state that is retaining job growth and college graduates is Johnson County, KS. The two university towns, Lawrence and Manhattan, have been growing in population and have seen a steady influx of students, but job growth has been negative for a long time. Wichita has about the same number of jobs now that it did in 2000. That is the number one reason why the cost of living has remained low. The only reason why the population continues to grow in Wichita is mainly due to the very very high birth rate compared to most other areas of the US.

"My hope is that Kansas has enough of a residual moderate Republican tradition that can make a comeback and prevent it from turning into another Mississippi. After all it is the home of Bob Dole and Dwight Eisenhower."

I wouldn't hold my breath. The moderates and liberals have been fleeing Kansas for a long time and I don't really see that changing. This is a big reason why the state has gotten more and more conservative over time with the exception of far eastern Kansas near Kansas City. The southwest 1/4 of the state already has demographics that are just like Texas so the way the jobs market is structured and the economics of commercial agriculture in SW Kansas is quite similar to the Texas panhandle. If you read up on some historical info the "Great Cattle Drives" of the late 1800s Dodge City was a key geographical outpost in the region.

It changing with climate change. Western Kansas slowly becoming a desert grassland and the depletion of the Ogalla Aquifer irrigation regulations are changing too.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,404 posts, read 46,544,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oak1776 View Post
It changing with climate change. Western Kansas slowly becoming a desert grassland and the depletion of the Ogalla Aquifer irrigation regulations are changing too.
Absolutely correct unfortunately... A warmer climate with higher average temperatures will lead to a bleak long-term future for much of western Kansas in terms of the water supply, aquifer, and reservoirs. That is why I really don't see much of a long-term future for much of the commercial ag industry that is currently in SW Kansas, particularly more than 50 years from now due to water situation and climate change.
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