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It amazes me the people who are willing to say that families can live on one income and those people not discuss the median income of all American workers being $26,324. That means that 50% of all American workers make less than $26,324.
66% of all American workers earn less than $39,900. Again, you can't just wish reality away. What about the cost of housing, of transportation that is a necessity to get back and forth to work, what about food costs, medical cost?
There is no discussion about how to make it work based on looking at reality or factual information about Median incomes and expenses. This information is readily available.
Why do people have fantasy and make believe discussions? How do people have discussions where they don't know anything about the subject matter they are discussing? Why are people willing to make up things about how Americans spend their money, when the data is readily available that disproves their assumptions about spending by Americans?
What is the point of having a discussion that is full of lies and misinformation? I just don't get it.
The self-righteousness of some people on here. These are the same people that say you shouldn't have an iPad, because you don't have a car, or an iPhone, because you don't have a checking account.
You CAN do it if you live where the housing is not insane and you are a saver/frugal, not someone who needs the best of everything.
There won't be a lot of money for luxuries and there will only be one car, modest clothes, modest family trips to the park not Disney World but to me what matters is that people are happy at what they do.
I still think, in retrospect, it's better for that stay at home spouse to work part time. I would not advise staying home 100% because it's so hard to maintain your separateness from being a parent and you also lose the edge in the career world.
That's all I'm saying. Any desirable city someone making less than $30k a year simply cannot afford for that other person to stay at home. Working from home is better than nothing at all.
It amazes me the people who are willing to say that families can live on one income and those people not discuss the median income of all American workers being $26,324. That means that 50% of all American workers make less than $26,324.
66% of all American workers earn less than $39,900. Again, you can't just wish reality away. What about the cost of housing, of transportation that is a necessity to get back and forth to work, what about food costs, medical cost?
There is no discussion about how to make it work based on looking at reality or factual information about Median incomes and expenses. This information is readily available.
Why do people have fantasy and make believe discussions? How do people have discussions where they don't know anything about the subject matter they are discussing? Why are people willing to make up things about how Americans spend their money, when the data is readily available that disproves their assumptions about spending by Americans?
What is the point of having a discussion that is full of lies and misinformation? I just don't get it.
When you pull out the teens with p/t jobs, retirees working p/t jobs, college kids who have seasonal summer jobs, and moms who intentionally work lower paying p/t jobs that are suitable to their schedules, you will skew that number up pretty significantly. That also doesn't include people who get housing and even meals provided (nannies, small innkeepers, etc.), the military who additionally receive clothing, housing, etc. on top of pay, and migrant farm workers who may or may not be legal and are almost never paying taxes.
Now add in areas where that's a comfortable life with houses in nice neighborhoods for $90K and inexpensive recreational offerings, and areas where people don't need a car because they are able to walk to work, shopping houses or worship, and pretty much everything else they need, and $40K a year is a healthy income. In NYC it's barely scraping by for one person. In Toledo it would be a comfortable living.
Dear sir,
I am going to be as fair as possible, since you admit that you are in your 70s, and therefore may not have a complete grasp of what people in their 20s 30s 40s 50s are experiencing right now. What's more, you may not understand WHY these "greedy young people" as you seem to be characterizing us cannot "just downsize".
Please listen: THE AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS FAMILY IN THIS COUNTRY PAYS HALF THEIR MONEY INTO TAXES
That's not just federal income tax, it also includes state income tax, taxes to pay for YOUR Social Security -- the check you get is not "your" money, your money paid someone else's Social Security when you were still working. It also includes gas taxes, sales taxes on EVERYTHING we buy, whopping real estate taxes that keep getting hiked up and up and UP, despite the fact that our homes have plunged in value. When politicians want to "get" them there "greedy corporations" by raising corporate income taxes, those same corporations turn right around and raise the price of the stuff they sell us, meaning that WE pay their taxes for them. WE, the middle class pay and pay and pay; we pay for subsidies for big companies like ADM, we bailout the big banks on Wall Street, we bailout companies like GM and Chrysler. Millions are on food stamps -- some people actually need them, others are just sponging off the system; doesn't matter, we in the middle class get to pay for that. When illegal aliens want in state tuition rates to go to college, guess who makes up the difference? Middle class taxpayers! When some dimwit in Washington wants to send foreign aid to countries that hate our guts, the middle class taxpayer coughs up the nickels. When some dimwit in the White House cooks up a huge new spending program -- instead of fixing the ones like Medicare that are going flat broke -- its the middle class that pays for it.
To re iterate, sir, THE AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS FAMILY IN THIS COUNTRY PAYS HALF THEIR MONEY INTO TAXES
So if half our money goes to taxes, and there's two people working, its almost like one person pays the bills while the other pays the taxes. That is what you don't understand; its also why most of us who you're bad mouthing here are not living extravagantly, we're barely holding on.
In conclusion sir, I think it needs to be said that someone your age shouldn't have to be told to knock it off and grow up; but I will say it: GROW UP. Instead of criticizing people who you don't know, try sitting down and listening to them instead.
by the way, I am a teacher and my wife is a physical therapist who takes care of cranky old guys like you. We both drive compact cars, rent a very modest house in a SAFE neighborhood, and our idea of a big night out is to go dancing at a club where's it 10 bucks to get in the door
cheers,
Mr. and Mrs. Middle Class
Quote:
Originally Posted by septuagenarian
I am not talking about Minimum Wage Jobs, but if a spouse wants to stay at home and raise the kids, there should be no problem. You just downsize your housing (rent or mortgage), downsize your vehicle, entertainment, vacations. Many say it takes two incomes to get by today, BS, it only takes two incomes if you want to have the three bedroom, two bath, two car garage home in the subs, a boat or jet skis, along with the big Toyota SUV, 46 in Flat Screen TV with 3,500 channels, surround sound, high speed internet connection ($135 month or more), I phone, oh, and the daily Latte Frappe at Starbucks at $5.00 a pop.
Get it?
When you pull out the teens with p/t jobs, retirees working p/t jobs, college kids who have seasonal summer jobs, and moms who intentionally work lower paying p/t jobs that are suitable to their schedules, you will skew that number up pretty significantly. That also doesn't include people who get housing and even meals provided (nannies, small innkeepers, etc.), the military who additionally receive clothing, housing, etc. on top of pay, and migrant farm workers who may or may not be legal and are almost never paying taxes.
Now add in areas where that's a comfortable life with houses in nice neighborhoods for $90K and inexpensive recreational offerings, and areas where people don't need a car because they are able to walk to work, shopping houses or worship, and pretty much everything else they need, and $40K a year is a healthy income. In NYC it's barely scraping by for one person. In Toledo it would be a comfortable living.
You analysis is just more make believe, you don't know if any of the stuff you wrote is true or not, but college students and teens with p/t jobs are not skewing anything.
Here is another way to look at it. Workers generally make more money as they age. Well right now 75% of all workers 55-64 make less than $52,000 a year.
Salaries are not that high to just say that people could live on one income is just nonsense.
Why do people go off of make believe and lies and misinformation? There is data out there about median incomes, household median incomes, and family expenses.
I keep reading references to families spending money on cell phones, or cable or etc.
The reality is that for the average families 80% of spending is tied to 5 categories. Housing, Food, Transportation, Medical and Social security/pensions.
It just seems to me this is an excuse to putdown other Americans.
No, I don't get it. Two people making $25 a year have it rough. That is far more than minimum wage. It takes three times minimum wage to make enough to live on your own, pay your own bills, ride the bus and go to the local library for your Internet.
You can only downsize your housing but so much. A person is supposed to live in a place that is 1/40 their annual income per month. If you are making $26,000 a year, that means you are supposed to live in a place that is $650 a month. What decent place for $650 a month is out there unless you live in a rural community?
Who has a 46 inch flat screen TV? Who has 3,500 channels? People are getting by on a cheap $200 32 inch TV with 300 channels. I don't even have cable. Rent is $865 a month. Car is $400 a month. Insurance is $130 a month. Electricity is $200 a month. Gas (heat) is $200 a month. Gas (transportation) is $200 a month. The only way I can get a place for $650 month where I won't get shot at is by putting down half on a home.
What high speed Internet connection is $135 a month or more? Yeah, like if you're running a business out of your home and have that level of Internet. If you don't pay for cable TV, you should be able to get Internet for $50 a month.
I don't have a 40" flat screen. My biggest TV is a 34" tube style. We'll be buying a flat screen this weekend only because our other tube style (27") died last week and we want to replace it. We have basic cable because we need it for Internet access. I work from home and not having Internet is not an option.
You can buy a car with a payment of well under $400 a month. A modest late model car will run $10K and a four year note at 7% is only $240/month. Sharing a house would cut down on your rent and utility costs by as much as 30%.
You analysis is just more make believe, you don't know if any of the stuff you wrote is true or not, but college students and teens with p/t jobs are not skewing anything.
Here is another way to look at it. Workers generally make more money as they age. Well right now 75% of all workers 55-64 make less than $52,000 a year.
Salaries are not that high to just say that people could live on one income is just nonsense.
Why do people go off of make believe and lies and misinformation? There is data out there about median incomes, household median incomes, and family expenses.
I keep reading references to families spending money on cell phones, or cable or etc.
The reality is that for the average families 80% of spending is tied to 5 categories. Housing, Food, Transportation, Medical and Social security/pensions.
It just seems to me this is an excuse to putdown other Americans.
I"m not putting down anyone. I've got friends who make about $40K and are raising two kids on that. They own a modest 3/1 1950's home--about 1000 s/f. They have owned it for 20 years and before the kids came along and the wife was still working, her entire salary went towards the mortgage every month. They will have it paid off next year.
The wife doesn't work a 'traditional" job outside the house, she does sell Avon which helps cover the grocery bill. She also coupons, has a huge garden and fruit trees and cans her fruits and vegetables. They've also got a dozen or so chickens. The husband takes the bus to work, they own a modest 10 year old Civic that still runs perfectly that they paid cash for when it was about four years old--they plan on keeping it for another 10 years. They have one computer (with Internet access), two older TV's with basic cable so they can get the Internet which their kids need for school assignments and the wife uses for her couponing and rebates (she saves much more than the Internet costs each month). They cancelled the expensive land line several years ago and each parent has a basic cell phone with pre-paid minutes. They rarely eat out, and holiday/birthday gifts are modest and generally practical. Much of their clothing comes from thrift shops, although the wife draws the line at underwear. They put $4K a year into retirement savings.
They make it with some additional savings left over.
I am not talking about Minimum Wage Jobs, but if a spouse wants to stay at home and raise the kids, there should be no problem. You just downsize your housing (rent or mortgage), downsize your vehicle, entertainment, vacations. Many say it takes two incomes to get by today, BS, it only takes two incomes if you want to have the three bedroom, two bath, two car garage home in the subs, a boat or jet skis, along with the big Toyota SUV, 46 in Flat Screen TV with 3,500 channels, surround sound, high speed internet connection ($135 month or more), I phone, oh, and the daily Latte Frappe at Starbucks at $5.00 a pop.
Get it?
That has always been the3 case since i was a kid and I am 65 years old.I don't thnik people need to be told this and its their decision whether both should work as there are advantages to both;IMO.
I am not talking about Minimum Wage Jobs, but if a spouse wants to stay at home and raise the kids, there should be no problem. You just downsize your housing (rent or mortgage), downsize your vehicle, entertainment, vacations. Many say it takes two incomes to get by today, BS, it only takes two incomes if you want to have the three bedroom, two bath, two car garage home in the subs, a boat or jet skis, along with the big Toyota SUV, 46 in Flat Screen TV with 3,500 channels, surround sound, high speed internet connection ($135 month or more), I phone, oh, and the daily Latte Frappe at Starbucks at $5.00 a pop.
Get it?
The problem is that most women want all these items that you say need to be cut out.
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They put $4K a year into retirement savings.
