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An entire generation of coddled, perma-lescent prima donnas is entering the workforce with ridiculous expectations and overbearing parents to back them up.
Personally I've seen this attitude in the workplace, and even among some of my peers (I'm a little older than the people referenced in this article). But my experience has been while these people do often get hired, they don't tend to really go anywhere, because they are tend to be a pain-in-the-butt to management which prevents them from moving up.
The counterpoint I've noticed is that that many baby boomers seem intent on dropping dead in their office, which keeps the truly lucrative management jobs out of the hands of younger people who are as or more capable. This creates an awkward tension between understimulated, underutilized, young workers and struggling, stressed-out boomers. Given that many boomers have another 15-20 years on the job, I don't like the thought of getting to middle management at 50 years old!
I've worked in shops where everyone has "Senior" in their title, which is basically a euphemism for "we want to keep you, but not promote you".
Yes, I caught this. I had mixed impressions. I'm really very late boomer, almost GenX--and I could identify with the emphasis on work-life balance. I am not into the boomer 'work is my life' thing and I believe that one's real life is more important than one's work life. I found it very irritating when this one woman was saying something like 'Well, if you tell them they have to work late and they have to work on some of their weekends, they leave.' And I'm thinking, 'Yes, good for them! I see things the other way around. I question why an employer should ever assume that I'd give up a perfectly good weekend of my precious life to do their crap.' Is it because they've ran into so many of these older workaholics who don't know any better? So, I'm on board with the millennials there. If the millennials bring change to restoring more life in the work/life balance, great. Similarly, I love the technology things too. I text with my friends and do emails at various times through the day.
However, I had serious issues with this whole thing about coddling people and how you should sugar-coat what you say and not speak too directly, because they might get upset and leave... I would say, 'Well, go ahead and leave then.' Similarly, if your 'Mommy' calls the HR office to find out why you didn't get the job, then I would definately not hire you. The extent of parental involvement in the lives of these people who really should be 'adults' at some point amazed me! They were talking about how some kids (sorry... adults!) even have their parents send in their resumes. And the whole thing about how 'everyone gets a gold star' is setting up some of these people for a rude awakening when they get older.
One comment I questioned however... This woman was saying about how millennials are aware that there are plenty of jobs and they can always go somewhere else. But this struck me as odd because I'm thinking: Really? Where? I work in Training/HR and I keep hearing about a jobs shortage coming, but I haven't see that happen yet. I also know lots of college kids who are coming out of school and ending up in really crappy jobs because they're competing with older workers who continue to get laid off and have to look for jobs again. So, it had me wondering: Where are all these jobs?
And yes, I totally agree on the 'boomers never retire' thing... I would really like to move up in my work--but I find at many places.... there are so many boomers holding on to these positions, probably until they die.
I question why an employer should ever assume that I'd give up a perfectly good weekend of my precious life to do their crap.' Is it because they've ran into so many of these older workaholics who don't know any better?
I don't think the boomer workaholic ethos will go away completely, but it certainly seems to be increasingly seen for what it is - the appearance of hard work without the real substance.
Being in the tech industry I am all-too-familiar with workaholics. From coders pulling down 16 hour days to execs pulling down 80-hour weeks. Aside from a few exceptions I've never seen a guy do this without sacrificing his health and family. In many offices, the workaholics are seen as ineffective workers who can't handle their jobs. People notice this stuff.
Younger generations definitely are putting more of an emphasis on work/life balance and are holding employers (who often pay lip service to the idea) to their interview promises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz
One comment I questioned however... This woman was saying about how millennials are aware that there are plenty of jobs and they can always go somewhere else. But this struck me as odd because I'm thinking: Really? Where?
In my business (Tech) and location (SoCal), the number of job opportunities far, far outstrips the available talent. Anyone decent knows it, and they can hop and shop jobs pretty easily. I've done it with great success, although I've never held 4 jobs in a year!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz
And yes, I totally agree on the 'boomers never retire' thing... I would really like to move up in my work--but I find at many places.... there are so many boomers holding on to these positions, probably until they die.
I'm interested in your opinion on this because you are in HR. I am really getting frustrated that everywhere I go - from startups to big corps, there is a cadre of aging managers who are unwilling to step aside, let alone mentor successors. They dominate even first-line manager roles, and it is quite frustrating to see 50+ year olds running a group of techs who are more experienced with the business and technology than the management.
I thought the startups would be better but in order to appease the boomer VC's the startups install boomer senior managers who are so expensive there is nothing left for us younger kids. Is the trick to find a company that skews young? Or should I just start planning now on getting out of corporate and starting my own shop?
I don't think the boomer workaholic ethos will go away completely, but it certainly seems to be increasingly seen for what it is - the appearance of hard work without the real substance.
Being in the tech industry I am all-too-familiar with workaholics. From coders pulling down 16 hour days to execs pulling down 80-hour weeks. Aside from a few exceptions I've never seen a guy do this without sacrificing his health and family. In many offices, the workaholics are seen as ineffective workers who can't handle their jobs. People notice this stuff.
Younger generations definitely are putting more of an emphasis on work/life balance and are holding employers (who often pay lip service to the idea) to their interview promises.
Yes, I'm coming from that industry too, and got caught up in that for awhile until I came to my senses. I think a lot of the workaholics could get their work done in a much shorter time, but I think there is a lot of 'playing office.' And some people seem to have a way of creating more work (when it's not necessary). I personally like to 'work smart' and get in and get out. But many workplaces don't want people who work smart; they are really concerned about appearance (how long do you appear to be in the office). A friend told me that regardless of whether she starts work at 7, 8 or 9... she is not expected to leave until 6:30 (because a few people actually walk around after 6pm to see who is still working there. That's ludicrous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto
In my business (Tech) and location (SoCal), the number of job opportunities far, far outstrips the available talent. Anyone decent knows it, and they can hop and shop jobs pretty easily. I've done it with great success, although I've never held 4 jobs in a year!
Hmm... maybe I should move to California. I'm in Dallas and I'm not seeing that kind of market here... at least in the area of technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto
I'm interested in your opinion on this because you are in HR. I am really getting frustrated that everywhere I go - from startups to big corps, there is a cadre of aging managers who are unwilling to step aside, let alone mentor successors. They dominate even first-line manager roles, and it is quite frustrating to see 50+ year olds running a group of techs who are more experienced with the business and technology than the management.
I thought the startups would be better but in order to appease the boomer VC's the startups install boomer senior managers who are so expensive there is nothing left for us younger kids. Is the trick to find a company that skews young? Or should I just start planning now on getting out of corporate and starting my own shop?
I'm more involved in training than in HR, but the training mgmt function is in HR, and I'm frequently asked to manage programs involving HR and performance goals. So, these issues come up a lot. I'm not sure what is the best route to take. At times, I consider just starting my own business, because there is such a lack of predictability in the workplace (constant reorganization, layoffs, etc.) and all the game-playing. There's always the possibility of getting to a certain level in a startup and then trying to get back into a large company at a higher position, but the problem in the larger company is when there's this ceiling and all the people in those positions are just going to sit in them until they retire/die. Also, a lot of people who have just stayed at the same company forever get rewarded to positions simply because they were there for a long time--and that waiting game seems like a waste of time to me. I've reached the point now, where yes, I do spend more time considering what might be a good business to start. I wish I could offer more helpful feedback, but I'm just as puzzled as you are. :-)
I don't think the boomer workaholic ethos will go away completely, but it certainly seems to be increasingly seen for what it is - the appearance of hard work without the real substance.
This is exactly what I was going to say, I don't think I could have said it better.
The fact of the matter is that there's a new generation on the block and, like every single generation before them in human history, they have their own ideas. The old generation is suddenly terrified at how easily the younger sees right through them, sees them for exactly what they are and says "No".
We've raised children in a culture that teaches just how disposable they really are. We can get rid of you in a heartbeat and we don't have to even give a good reason. You are here only until we can find a foreigner who will do your work for cheaper. You are here only until one of us steals or lies and destroys the company, and you are only here for that long because we want to rest our feet on someone.
And what other reaction would this foster? We've taught our children the saddest truth there is: You only have yourself. No one else is going to look out for you, and god knows corporate America sure as hell isn't even going to start. You have you and you need to make that work. How there can be complaints about the lack of importance the new generation is tying to work, I don't know. The new kids on the block have been taught that it isn't good to become attached to any job, because you definitely will not keep it.
In my business (Tech) and location (SoCal), the number of job opportunities far, far outstrips the available talent. Anyone decent knows it, and they can hop and shop jobs pretty easily. I've done it with great success, although I've never held 4 jobs in a year!
And you have answered your own question regarding the Boomers not leaving.
Companies don't expect your loyally or your long-term commitment because you're not going to give them either one. Boomers on the other hand, were brought up in a different (very different!) culture. Boomers expected, and still expect, to stay in a job with the same company for life, and those companies seeking stability in their organization still value the anchor that attitude provides. While you come and go from job to job someone has to stay around and actually run things.
If I had the choice of hiring a young IT person that I expected to replace in a year (or less) and a Boomer that would likely stay until retirement, you wouldn't get a job, the Boomer would.
Most companies are getting tired of training employees just to see them leave, which means they are training someone else so they can leave.
I think you should start your own shop. Let's see how long you enjoy going through the hire/train/lose/hire/train/lose cycle.
Yes, I'm a Boomer. I run my own shop. A shop of one: me. Best job and best boss I've ever had. I'll sell the company and retire when I want to and not before.
If I had the choice of hiring a young IT person that I expected to replace in a year (or less) and a Boomer that would likely stay until retirement, you wouldn't get a job, the Boomer would.
But it's a moot point - I interview all the time and out of hundreds of candidates, the number of guys with the skills and experience that I need can be counted on one hand. 90% of those are under 40, because the field I'm in (web-based apps) hasn't been around that long.
Also, having been through several rounds of layoffs at several companies, it's hard to see this loyalty you speak of. A job is a mutually beneficial business arrangement, loyalty is for marriages and the military. The minute I'm not useful anymore I am gone, where is the loyalty there?
The best employees tend to move on because they can make dramatically better money elsewhere. What does that say about their employers in a town where mortgages are $3500+ a month?
Seems to me like you have a one-sided view of the employer / employee relationship, and given the fact that you are running a one-man show, you probably are quite removed from this. I'm 30+ and if I had stayed at my first job I would be long out of a job by now anyway. How long do I need to stick around to get promoted? 10 years?
Seems to me like you have a one-sided view of the employer / employee relationship, and given the fact that you are running a one-man show, you probably are quite removed from this. I'm 30+ and if I had stayed at my first job I would be long out of a job by now anyway. How long do I need to stick around to get promoted? 10 years?
I stayed in my first job 23 years. I'd still be there except for the bosses son. A royal jerk if ever there was one. It got so bad the Board of Directors asked him to leave. I was already gone.
I thought the report started out well but then took a turn towards simply spouting common sense. I think it fair to say the notion of working for one company for your entire life died out in the 1970s, if it even made it that far.
As for being a workaholic, sometimes you have no choice. Lawyers and I-bankers who want to make partner are going to have put in some murderous hours. I reckon a medical residency is no 9-5 gig.
As for the things particular to that age group, I'd say they were spot on. Of course it requires generalizing.
I am 46 -- whatever group that puts me in, but tend to see this as more of mindset thing than anything else. Sometimes I am working my own projects and have both older folks and kids, and sometimes for others (W2, as it were). So I see both sides, and I am with the "kids," on this stuff. Saw the show and thought it was the employers who were the whiners. The people you hire are a part of management work. If you cannot manage them, who is falling down in that?
Does anyone think the company would keep people who did not meet expectations? They would be on the street, yesterday. The kids are just holding the companies to the same standard. Under the present US business model, the people working in a company are likely to outlive the company -- it is the companies who have made themselves disposable.
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