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Well, in a sense they are free. Look at healthcare. Like almost all developed countries, Sweden, Finalnd and Denmark pay less taxes per person for government healthcare than Americans. They just get 100 % coverage for less money than the US spends on 27 % coverage.
So its free in the sense that they pay less than Americans, and recieve a benefit most Americans don't in return. Bulk purchase of the "freebies" often gets them quality at a huge discount.
In any case, its harder to generalize about the Nordics than you'd think. Denmark has really high taxes, Norway is close to a high-tax US state. I did a comparison once beween New York and Norway for an income of 100 000, and it was almost bang-on even. Norway and Demark have the highest number of startups in the world per citizen, something thats been linked to the safety net reducing the personal cost of failiure.
There is a point to made in that regard. The issue I have is, it would be rather difficult to implement the same system here on a federal level. We all know what happens when we throw money into the black hole void of Washington DC. We have inept politicians, and there are too many wheels that will inevitably require greasing along the way. By the time the money actually reaches it's target, who knows what the end results will be. Wait... I do! CEOs, Washington cronies, politicians, special interest groups... They will all take their share and the American people will be left with whatever crumbs they leave. That's the problem when you take competition out of the equation.
The problem we face today is, there is not enough competition in the health insurance game. It's almost like Rockefeller's oil monopoly. You paid whatever they told you to pay. The American people are being hosed under the current system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman07
So naive. Nothing is free. How is the "free" healthcare and education paid for? Does the money fall out of the sky? Anyone who has a full time job in America should get healthcare for a reasonable price anyways.
In Sweden, and other socialist modeled economies , the money comes from the taxes collected. They pay considerably higher taxes, but the receive better coverage, and everyone gets the same level of care. If they would like additional coverage, they can also purchased supplemental insurance, and they can even come to places like America to have their procedures done if the chose.
As I said, the majority of them are satisfied with the services rendered by the state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman07
Exactly. And America has a higher standard of living and larger GDP. Things are more expensive in Sweden so we have a higher standard of living. China's GDP per capita will not overtake th US even if their tea GDP does, nor will their standard of living.
BTW. The Chinese look up to the US, not Sweden. Their leaders try to send their children to the US, like many wealthy foreigners.
Not to trigger a debate, but GDP (PPP) is more of a gauge pertaining to the spending power of the average consumer. That's more of an individual assessment of the economy, and ties in more with the quality of life. You could say the Swedes are worse off, but what you are forgetting is the services rendered by the state. While they pay higher taxes, they are also receiving health care paid for by their tax dollars, where we are paying for our insurance out of our incomes in many cases. If your employer is paying for it, that's $200-$300 less a month that they can't afford to pay you in wages.
Whether the Chinese look up to us or not has no influence over the strength or weakness of their GDP. As an aggregate, their economy is huge, and may very well overtake ours. Of course, with over a billion people, their GDP per capita will remain miniscule by comparison for decades. Just the same, their GDP (PPP) will be no comparison for decades on end.
If you would like to look further into GDP (PPP) you should also consider the fact that many European nations also enjoy more vacation time. Germans for example earn less annually, but they also receive upwards of 12 vacation weeks a year. So they could very well be earning more per workday.
Here's a comparison of the U.S. and Sweden's laws pertaining to paid time off, according to Wikipedia.
United States: None.
(In my experience, most employers offer at least 2 weeks vacation and about 7 nationally recognized holidays.)
Sweden:
25 work days minimum, plus 13 public holidays (some of which fall on a Saturday or a Sunday) and three de facto holidays (two of which may fall on a Saturday or a Sunday). Additional leave, often called arbetstidsförkortning (English: shorthening of work time), typically 5-10 work days per year, is available for many Swedish employees.
So the Swedes earn slightly less, but they also enjoy about 38 days off at the lease (half days counted at .5 days off). Like I said, the Swedes don't seem to mind the system, tax structure, or social safety nets they enjoy.
Regarding education, yes it's important, but every economy requires people to flip burgers, clean toilets, and all the other jobs that people don't dream about doing.
Well, except that now there are robots that drop fries and fill drinks. I don't think burger flipping robots are far behind. Floor cleaning robots, carpet vacuuming robots, and yes, even toilet cleaning robots and self-cleaning toilets.
These devices do not fix every situation (people can do things to public toilet that engineers never think of), but they do significantly cut down on the number of people needed to do these types of jobs.
Well, except that now there are robots that drop fries and fill drinks. I don't think burger flipping robots are far behind. Floor cleaning robots, carpet vacuuming robots, and yes, even toilet cleaning robots and self-cleaning toilets.
These devices do not fix every situation (people can do things to public toilet that engineers never think of), but they do significantly cut down on the number of people needed to do these types of jobs.
These are possibilities. But these fast food corps are massively profitable and growing. The individual franchisees aren't raking in big bucks though. They can't afford the additional costs incurred constructing a fleet of burger flipping robots. Just the same, the average janitorial service doesn't rake in the profits to support such a fleet. Don't forget, these robots have hidden costs like service calls when they break down and maintenance. When a worker gets sick, you just toss them to the curb and throw up some want ads on craigslist.
It will be a slow transition. 20 years ago, only the most profitable McDonald's franchises had fry-dropping robots. Now nearly all of them do. I doubt few, if any, janitorial services use floor mapping and vacuuming robots (though I bet some businesses do and forego janitors). Give it another 10-20 years and janitorial services will essentially be robot repair services.
Whats your point? This is true for any country in the world.
Yeah I know right. I love these enlightened people who think the rest of the world is just awash in a sea of togetherness, docility, and unisex bathrooms.
Yep, the United States is such a horrible place. If only I could live somewhere else where it was socially acceptable to breastfeed until I was 32. Then, THEN things would be better
It will be a slow transition. 20 years ago, only the most profitable McDonald's franchises had fry-dropping robots. Now nearly all of them do. I doubt few, if any, janitorial services use floor mapping and vacuuming robots (though I bet some businesses do and forego janitors). Give it another 10-20 years and janitorial services will essentially be robot repair services.
It has less to do with profits and more to do with the cost of labor vs robots. If the robot costs 100K and replaces one minimum wage worker, that's a good way to kill your profitability. These workers also do more tasks than simply dropping the fries in the oil. The robot can only do one of these tasks at a time. So you're buying the robot simply to eliminate .25 workers, since the workers are doing many tasks throughout the day.
These workers don't flip the burgers either. They simply load them and the machine does the rest. Same with the drinks, they just press the button and the machine does the work. That's automation in action, and it's been like that for decades. It maximized the efficiency of the worker.
I think we are a long ways away from a fully automated McDonalds. It could be done, but shareholders wouldn't like the initial expense, and they don't see a need... Yet.
i have a friend in a scandavian country (norway,sweden,the netherlands,switerzland) she says that scandavians take care of their own, so when job hunting is hard, at least you won't starve... she's been looking for work but is able to pay her house taxes (her mom died leaving her the house) with the help they give you when you're down
Not like 'merica and most of north america. we believe you should do everything on your own. Regardless if it drives you straight to the dumps.
Scandinavian has a generous welfare system but they also have a generous educational system that makes sure you have some sort of marketable skill so you don't need to be on welfare.
scandavian country (norway,sweden,the netherlands,switerzland)
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Originally Posted by BigSwede
American education
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