Why doesn't anyone get fired anymore? (employment, degree, job, companies)

[thatguydownsouth]

I think its industry specific, and within that...company specific. I work in manufacturing in a Fortune 500, we never fire people unless they do something absolutely stupid like bring a gun to work and show it off (happened). We are very diverse and profitable so we never have layoffs. However other manufacturing firms definitely have layoffs. Banks and places like Fidelity/Morgan Stanley layoff by the ten thousands.

I agree with the poster above, it looks better on paper to be laid off than fired.

[boxus]

[quote=the_grimace;32626591]Let me reiterate in a much less rambling way than my first post.

Originally Posted by the_grimace

1. I've personally never even heard of someone getting fired in my industry. (I guess it must happen, but it's never happened where I've worked and I've never heard about it from close colleagues) (I work in software development/tech, so that could be a factor - It's a fairly laid back industry)

People get fired all the time, heck, there is a thread right now on this forum about someone getting fired for assisting someone with a car fire. People will get fired for the most ridiculous reasons, it is a way to keep the little people under control. I know someone who was fired from Walmart for wearing their badge outside while on break; not showing up to a server job though they were not scheduled, so fired them ebcause they could not get a hold of them at 5:30am; fired from a factory for yelling at line associates; fired for drugs; and that is just off the top of my head.

In professional jobs, firings happen much less, usually the person resigns after a series of poor reviews and failed performance improvemnt plans. Businesses do not give low wage workers these kinds of opportunities.

Originally Posted by the_grimace

2. It appears very hard to get fired. Poor performance is not enough to get fired in my experience. I feel you have a huge safety net once you get hired because it seems companies are very unwilling to fire someone.?

It is easy to get fired from many jobs, sometimes it just takes a manager being in a bad mood, or standing up to the manager over something they are doing against the law. I know someone in Miami who complained about not getting paid, then was assaulted and fired by the manager. Or a company will constructively discharge someone, as in making conditions so bad, the eprson quits. I know someone who was a server, and ended up never getting any tables assigned to her (though shift was assigned), so she quit as she was not serving any tables.

Originally Posted by the_grimace

3. Layoffs do happen in lieu of firing, but why? Why wait for a layoff? Why put up with terrible employees? ?

Layoffs are for real, not just a thing to get people fired. Laying off people is much better for them than having a firing on their record.

Originally Posted by the_grimace

Maybe my industry just has a lot to do with it. I would assume more traditional business like finance, banking, fortune 500s might be much more cutthroat. Even still, getting fired is something that seems very rare to me. I'm trying to figure out if there is some crazy business reason behind it, perhaps like it actually being more time consuming and costly to hire someone than I think. Poor work performance is better than no work performance?

Industry and level in the industry has everything to do with it. Fact is, many low age workers are treated like garbage. Besides the low wage, they have to put up with BS that would never go on at professionals jobs/levels.

[move4ward]

A guy that sits next to me lost over $100k, which I have corrected. We were not able to recover the money.
He has at least 10 years experience.

Some people don't get fired due to nepotism.

At a previous employer, they hired the son of a manager. He freely admitted to snorting cocaine on a regular basis. He would show up to work at 8, 9, or 10. It all depends on his recovery from the last night. His drug habit was affecting his ability to show up to work. I had to do his work and mine, when he wasn't there. I got written up for complaining about doing his work. I wasn't a "team player".

He was employed for 2 years until a mass layoff and each manager had to pick somebody to let go. If they had let me go, they would have been in a crunch in the mornings.

[timberline742]

What a lovely thing to wish for during the holidays.

[War Beagle]

Originally Posted by s1alker

I work in a supermarket. Apart from theft they don't fire anyone because it's naturally a revolving door. I can see someone in a high paid and high responsibility position being canned pretty quickly for negligence. A part time employee making 9 an hour isn't going to stick around too long to begin with.

In my experience, the higher up someone is, the longer it takes to fire them. And even when they are being "fired", they are generally afforded time to look for another job before they are actually terminated. Also, the higher-up one gets the more "cushions" are offered to make the separation less painful (i.e. severance).

[Hemlock140]

Perhaps it's your experience that people who should be fired are not, but that doesn't mean all employers keep poor employees. In a previous career I probably fired 8-10 people over about 10 years, all for incompetence, most failed to pass probation, others were temps that I fired for poor attendance. When I owned a business for 16 years I fired 5, 2 for not being able to handle the work, 2 for repeatedly closing early without a legitimate reason (emergency) and 1 for stealing. In my current job I have not fired anyone yet in 5 years here but have seen 3 people fired in other departments. Before I fire anyone for not being able to do the work I will make every effort to counsel, do additional training, and meet regularly to follow up to get them every possible opportunity to improve. Back when there were more openings than qualified applicants sometimes it just didn't work out.

[495neighbor]

I am guessing your department has a very difficult time getting requisitions for hiring signed by the higher ups, so the head of your department is of the mind anyone is better than nobody to do the job.

[Tekkie]

Originally Posted by the_grimace

1. I've personally never even heard of someone getting fired in my industry.

You're in the wrong industry then. If you work in sales/sales support, it's quite common that numerous people in your department are fired on a yearly basis. I don't know if my current employer uses that old bottom 10% GE rule, but it seems every year around the same time they "clean house". They fire at least 1-3 people on our team on a yearly basis. It leads to a lot of instability and insecurity. If that's what you want, you're free to take my job. I'll be leaving it in a couple weeks anyway.

[Nonesuch]

Originally Posted by 495neighbor

I am guessing your department has a very difficult time getting requisitions for hiring signed by the higher ups, so the head of your department is of the mind anyone is better than nobody to do the job.

This is common in larger corporations. Even if posted, if not filled in short order, the assumption is that the company can do without, the position is eliminated. So if morale is bad when you have a coworker now pulling his weight, it's even worse when a team of 4 (really 3.5 with the dead weight) is permanently downsized to a team of 3.

In my type of work, people are fired for serious lapses or consistently failing to do their jobs, but in my sector of IT hiring new staff in this part of the country is very difficult, so it's a tough decision. Do you eliminate a guy doing perhaps 60% of their job when it could take six months to hire a replacement, and another several months to get the new guy up to speed, trained in the specific tasks and procedures of the job?

Originally Posted by Tekkie

You're in the wrong industry then. If you work in sales/sales support, it's quite common that numerous people in your department are fired on a yearly basis. I don't know if my current employer uses that old bottom 10% GE rule, but it seems every year around the same time they "clean house". They fire at least 1-3 people on our team on a yearly basis. It leads to a lot of instability and insecurity. If that's what you want, you're free to take my job. I'll be leaving it in a couple weeks anyway.

I agree. A drawback to routinely firing staff for poor performance is that if people are regularly fired for "minor" issues (or for what appears to their coworkers to be minor issues), this makes the remaining staff nervous about their job security, which can lead to "safe" employees updating their resumes and putting feelers out for open positions elsewhere. IOW, firing bad employees can ultimately lead to an exodus of good employees.

I know of jobs where I could make +$12K/year more, but with less job security and even more annoying company policies and politics. But if my position becomes less secure (and the politics become more annoying), why not make the jump?

[Tekkie]

Originally Posted by Nonesuch

I agree. A drawback to routinely firing staff for poor performance is that if people are regularly fired for "minor" issues (or for what appears to their coworkers to be minor issues), this makes the remaining staff nervous about their job security, which can lead to "safe" employees updating their resumes and putting feelers out for open positions elsewhere. IOW, firing bad employees can ultimately lead to an exodus of good employees.

I know of jobs where I could make +$12K/year more, but with less job security and even more annoying company policies and politics. But if my position becomes less secure (and the politics become more annoying), why not make the jump?

This is exactly what happened in my situation. I'd consider myself to be one of the better performers on the team, but the constant insecurity of not knowing when my number might be up over something silly led me to seek employment elsewhere. I'm giving my notice today.