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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal
People have the life they have because of their own choices. You can't blame a job. You want a life? Then have one.
There are a ton of jobs that pay over $50k a year with a flat 40 hour a week schedule and full benefits. No take home work, no weekends, etc.
It's been my experience that certain people can't disconnect themselves from work. The can't stop looking at their cell phones. They answer work emails at night. They don't take vacation. They work inefficiently and stay late even when they don't have to.
A lot of people "think" they have to work themselves too much in order to get ahead. Most jobs don't even ask for all of that. If a job does ask for all of that, then simple. It just means that that one job isn't for you and you need to make a plan to move on to a job that offers the schedule you need. See, the employee is always empowered to get the life that they want.
There are also plenty of jobs paying over $100,000 that fit the same description. In my case as a manager I may have to work longer hours now and then due to a crisis or urgent project, but most days it's 7:00-3:00. I have people working for me until about 6pm and they rarely bother me after I leave.
Many people here in Accounting, Engineering and Finance make well over $100k and leave at the same time every day, with some having flex schedules and telecommute options. We are not Fortune 500, but I know people working for places like Costco, Shell, Kroger and Boeing that make over $100k and have normal hours.
This really is a tough issue because though I feel its unfair, it seems like people act as if anyone who is concerned about a work/life balance is lazy or doesn't want to work. Thats not the case at all but if I take a job making 40k a year with the expectation I work a 9-5 schedule with the occasional day getting stuck in the office an extra hour I'm fine with that, however if I'm regularly expected to stay til 7 or 8 in hte evening and bring work home with me then I probably wouldn't take the job at 40k.
To be honest even though htis is a legit question I'm sccared to ask it in interviews as everyone seems to want you to have the attitude of ill bust my butt for you 24/7 if need be and I'm not gonan give up my life for 40k, especially when some jobs you may make 40k but once you break down the amount of hours your working your making like $13 an hour which y ou could easily make elsewhere with a less stressful job and less hours.
I agree with you though, don't turn down jobs because maybe they'll make you work alot because thats true of any job. Heck there's plenty of stories on here of people who's hiring managers told them up and down 9--5 mon thru fri never stay late and they are working 60 hours a week so even if you ask there's no gurantees.
I know "Networking" is an overused term, but, this is one of those cases where knowing the scoop of what goes on from people who work or have worked there is very beneficial.
I can't think of a great way to raise that in an interview, unless, you ask as one of the closing questions about Work Life Balance. You really would need to spin it in a positive way, not as in a "I only work 9-5 and leave to pick up Sally everyday". Maybe researching on the companies careers website and gleaning that from the information. "In doing my research, I noticed that you guys promote Healthy Lifestyles and a Work/Life Balance. What have the benefits been to your organization? Can you give any details on that?
Define your personal boundaries and stick to them. Don't try planning too far ahead into the future: things can and will change. Make sure you set your work-life balance now, rather than for some date in the future. Nobody should put in 10+ hour days at work unless you are passionate about the job (you love it, it fulfills you, you WANT to work that many hours because it's not really work, it's enjoyable) and/or making boatloads of money.
I think you're right about this. Based on my experience and from others, if you're willing to give an employer 200% even though 100% is considered above average, the more they will expect the 200%.
Also, people who put in 200% effort and keep their heads down are the ones who get laid off, while the "team players" who are always chatting it up with the boss and spend half of the workday talking about sports with co-workers and killing time on the Internet get promoted.
I learned at my first office job that going above and beyond really gets you nowhere. Usually, being the best of the best won't translate into a pay raise over the guy who slacks off all the time. Schmoozing and being popular is what will make you successful at work. At least that has been my experience working in offices.
Maybe researching on the companies careers website and gleaning that from the information. "In doing my research, I noticed that you guys promote Healthy Lifestyles and a Work/Life Balance. What have the benefits been to your organization? Can you give any details on that?
Good idea. It would also give me an idea on how well they follow up with this, as my previous employer claimed to have work/life balance but harassed people for not doing OT...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys
Define your personal boundaries and stick to them. Don't try planning too far ahead into the future: things can and will change. Make sure you set your work-life balance now, rather than for some date in the future. Nobody should put in 10+ hour days at work unless you are passionate about the job (you love it, it fulfills you, you WANT to work that many hours because it's not really work, it's enjoyable) and/or making boatloads of money.
That's the most difficult part. I am under the impression in this economy, you can't have too firm of personal boundaries with work/life balance. A lot of employers seem to think it means you aren't committed to your job. Nowadays, anything can be used as a reason to fire you. "See, Joe came in on Saturday but you didn't, so what's your problem?" is along the lines of what I've heard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by statisticsnerd
Usually, being the best of the best won't translate into a pay raise over the guy who slacks off all the time. Schmoozing and being popular is what will make you successful at work. At least that has been my experience working in offices.
Well that's depressing, as I can't actually get work done if my aim is to be popular.
A lot of people "think" they have to work themselves too much in order to get ahead.
Yes, it's an erroneous belief.
Quote:
See, the employee is always empowered to get the life that they want.
Amen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by statisticsnerd
I learned at my first office job that going above and beyond really gets you nowhere. Usually, being the best of the best won't translate into a pay raise over the guy who slacks off all the time. Schmoozing and being popular is what will make you successful at work. At least that has been my experience working in offices.
Yes. I've seen it time and again too. It's really backwards. But I do think that are some professions where hard work truly pays off: certain skilled professions where the impact you make is directly felt.
Best one-size-fits-all advice for improving work-life balance: Be as efficient as possible during the workday so you won't need to work as much overtime. This might not work for jobs that may require helping customers all around the clock but for a job that's designed for a 9 to 5 schedule, it should in theory.
Best one-size-fits-all advice for improving work-life balance: Be as efficient as possible during the workday so you won't need to work as much overtime. This might not work for jobs that may require helping customers all around the clock but for a job that's designed for a 9 to 5 schedule, it should in theory.
Just a point about this-- I think we can all agree there is more to work than just working. There is a level of social life and commingling which is expected of people in order to keep their jobs. I could be as efficient as possible so I can leave work at 5 with the following day's work already in progress, but if I don't stay later to participate in some optional team thing, or go to a happy hour or some other thing, it looks bad. OT is another issue-- when it's optional and people aren't staying late, it gives the impression you "have better things to do" than be a team player. You can stay late to be a team player, which looks good, but then end up not having dinner with your family a few times out of the work week.
Just a point about this-- I think we can all agree there is more to work than just working. There is a level of social life and commingling which is expected of people in order to keep their jobs. I could be as efficient as possible so I can leave work at 5 with the following day's work already in progress, but if I don't stay later to participate in some optional team thing, or go to a happy hour or some other thing, it looks bad. OT is another issue-- when it's optional and people aren't staying late, it gives the impression you "have better things to do" than be a team player. You can stay late to be a team player, which looks good, but then end up not having dinner with your family a few times out of the work week.
Try it and see.. maybe temporarily. It may sound risky but the way I see it, there's also a risk of going with the flow - staying late for the sake of staying late and not getting anything in return.
Try it and see.. maybe temporarily. It may sound risky but the way I see it, there's also a risk of going with the flow - staying late for the sake of staying late and not getting anything in return.
Of course there are going to be times where staying late is necessary for planning and completing work, but I'd be more concerned about the impression a manager would get about staying late. They might see it as "well you've stayed later these times before, why can't you stay late now and why is it a problem"? I saw that happen a lot when coworkers told the managers they were going back to school and the managers would get upset.
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