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Studies show that hiring managers care, and that may be part of the problem. There's a bias. I stated it in an earlier post but more than one study indicates if all things are equal - achievements and degrees - a person with a traditional name will be hired over the person with a non-traditional name. It may not be right or fair, but it's reality.
Language can be a problem, too. I'm not talking about professionals, I'm talking about college graduates. I've had several African American college graduates on my team over the years and some incorrectly pronounce words even though they're educated and should know better. One person I corrected told me it's a cultural thing and she's not changing it because it's acceptable to her. I'm sorry, but I would never respond that way to my manager and I can't put you in front of clients if you cannot speak the language. So there may be cultural differences preventing employment, as well. To get around this, the company began giving reading tests to everyone to see how they pronounce the words, but some of the offenders correctly pronounce words during the interview process but not after being hired. It's a problem, and this isn't a matter of bias or prejudice, we've had a couple of Caucasian graduates who also didn't have a command of the language.
If I was her manager she would be marked for termination simply for the response. It may not have happened right there and then but I would have got rid of her eventually.
If you don't have the humility to acknowledge an error and receive criticism graciously you can't work for me.
Dude I know blacks with BA degrees and have those silly ghetto names which I really hate. Their names hinder them from obtaining professional employment. Again these kids were born into poverty and are trying to pull themselves out. On the flip side I know some professional blacks and blacks of middle class background. They seem well to-do but they know all to well bias is their. I have a buddy of mines is half Hispanic and half black., his sister uses her Hispanic heritage to the full extent when it comes to private or corporate employment which works. If she used her black heritage she would have still been pushing papers. If I was you, you should watch birth lottery because in life we are all not born lucky.
What makes Shanequa more ghetto than say Jose or Angel in a city like NYC?
And the mere fact that Hispanics in NYC, when compared to blacks, are LESS likely to have college education, have HIGHER levels of poverty, and are AS LIKELY to come from female headed households if they are black or Puerto Ricans, shows that blacks are more discriminated against because people are just simply more racist against them.
In NYC Hispanics are WORSE off than blacks how ever one measures it and this is ESPECIALLY true for Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, when contrasted to West Indian and African immigrants.
Indeed this anti black bias is visible in this thread and the one about Google. Hispanics do no better but yet all the animosity is directed against blacks. Clearly some people are using the weaknesses of PART of the black population as a reason to stigmatize the ENTIRE black population.
So my next question would be, aren't successful Black businessmen mentoring up-and-coming AAs? I suppose if they preferred, they wouldn't need to use government funds.
Given the fact that the majority of business ownership and decision making are in the hands of whites blacks will be very foolish to fall into the trap of thinking that they can isolate themselves from the mainstream and will will be OK.
Most black business are small and so do not have the resources to train people from scratch, so must hire people with the relevant experience and range of contacts. Small companies have many challenges being competitive and this is doubly so for those owned by non whites who have an inbuilt biased against them just for that fact.
So how will a black person gain the experience needed? Relying on the few black business owners who have the time and the resources to help them isn't the answer.
Studies show that hiring managers care, and that may be part of the problem. There's a bias. I stated it in an earlier post but more than one study indicates if all things are equal - achievements and degrees - a person with a traditional name will be hired over the person with a non-traditional name. It may not be right or fair, but it's reality.
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Except that a black man named Michael doesn't have life as easy as a white man named Michael either, when two people with equivalent educational backgrounds are compared.
I will give you an example. I interviewed for a job with a major Fortune 500 company. Ivy league MBA, very traditional and GENERIC name, in fact MORE generic than most whites with their German, Polish or other last names. Was told that I didn't have the "fit" even though I was told that I interviewed well, presented myself well, was articulate, and brought an interesting background. When pressed I was told that "they couldn't imagine the Treasury working with me".
What exactly does that mean? It wasn't the "you were good but some one had the skills more closely connected to what they were looking for", or "we found a candidate in house"...all acceptable. It was this intangible thing.
This is what MANY black men in particular have to deal with. Now here is the challenge. If one is seeking employment through recruiters they only get paid by placing people. Who will they push? The white male from an affluent suburban back ground, or the black male who is articulate, but whose accent reflects that he grew up in a MIDDLE class black setting?
The woman speaking what I imagine to be "ebonics" is a fool if she thinks that she can speak non standard English in formal settings and remain professional.
Now if she is of Caribbean background and has an accent which can be easily understood by all and you insist that she transforms her speech to sound as if she is a white female from an upper middle class north east suburb then that is another issue.
I am aware that people with Southern accents also face bias. Why if they are articulate and speak standard English?
EXCELLENT POST!! I'm glad someone caught this and responded with truth. I'm tired of hearing from opponents of Affirmative Actions (does it even exist anymore) that the minorities (Blacks primarily) hired due to Affirm-Act are just placed in any job position even when they're unqualified for it and can't handle it just to satisfy the law but Whites (not just the males but females too) are always hired for positions they're wholly qualified for. What a bunch of crap!
Aside from a few civil service posts, that few people with college degrees want any way, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION no longer exists in employment.
What I find interesting is that those who insist that it does can only use anecdotes as evidence. They simply want the status quo to remain where they as white men enjoy an undue advantage.
The name study was first done in, I believe, the seventies and it related to white children. Turns out the Marys and Williams were perceived as higher achievers than those classmates with eccentric names. It's a fluke of human nature. It's not a difficult matter to adopt a different first name if a person feels that they are being misjudged because of it. Not a comfortable thing to do but easier than changing the subconscious of thousands of people, I suppose.
I don't understand why Black business owners would be any more busy to help than White business owners.
I see them at the golf clubs and other nice places where people socialize. My guess is that many of them abandon their roots when they rise up the economic ladder.
As far as White business owners go, there is a great deal of stigma being considered prejudiced today. Most White people are more than glad to be able to say they are friends with or helping Black people.
And I'm glad someone mentioned the unfairness of a whole race of people being judged by a small number of bad actors. Because that's something I see where every single AA could make a difference.
What I see now in public is that when people of color act out it's usually the White people who call them out. This makes no difference whatsoever and often ends in a brawl. If educated Black people began policing their own they'd have a lot more credibility. When they remain silent or join in with the criticized side out of solidarity it makes White people think you are all the same in approving of bad behavior. This would make a huge difference in how White people view your sense of responsibility to society.
Remember what the Black community did to Bill Cosby when he spoke his words of truth? Seems the ghetto system is designed to keep you from speaking up for what will be most successful for you. No White person can ever fix that.
I want to be as fair and equal as possible and I only have my eyes and ears to tell me if I'm on the right track with that. Race is a social construct but behavior is real.
Given the fact that the majority of business ownership and decision making are in the hands of whites blacks will be very foolish to fall into the trap of thinking that they can isolate themselves from the mainstream and will will be OK.
The refugee Somali communities are very tight knit and seem to be thriving. They are even entering politics where they can make a difference on a larger scale.
It is the same for white people with no connections. There are a lot of white unemployed in Europe right now – most of them college graduates below age of 35. I college degree is more likely to help you get a white color job in United States than in Europe. I think African-American organizations should ask the right questions why they cannot get a job after college (just as white should) instead of going after white people that as a group are not responsible for the misfortune of Americans regardless of color.
Last edited by Sconesforme; 06-01-2014 at 01:20 PM..
Making connection is hard, uncomfortable and in this age when young people are spending increasingly long periods of time interacting with electronics becoming antiquated. I agree it is important.
There's nothing wrong with introducing yourself and asking for mentorship. A teacher, a business owner, anyone who looks like they know what they're doing. Keep at it. Does anyone think to ask?
A couple of hundred workers interviewed in 3 states does not translate to a national trend by any means. I have never gotten a job because I knew someone since my first at age 14, nor do I know anyone that did. That whole "knowing someone" thing is just another way for those unable to find a job to blame someone else, rather than admit that there might be someone else better qualified in the highly competitive job market.
I agree. I've worked my whole life and none of the jobs I've gotten were a result of a relative helping me in through a secret back door. I had to take competency tests, filled out applications, went through the interview process, and got lucky to land jobs because I made a good impression on the person who hired me.
When you're working your way up the corporate ladder then networking becomes very important. It's not a black or white thing, it's a business thing.
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