Here I am, on the job boards again. Here I am, refresh the page. (unemployed, applications)

[Lafleur]

Originally Posted by timberline742

But you need the networking to get the job.

So I wonder how I got the jobs I got without networking? Because for two out of the three I've had since college, that's what happened.

It's not the only way, man.

[rzzzz]

networking is definitely the easiest way to get a new job
i have never had a job interview in my entire career

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Lafleur

So I wonder how I got the jobs I got without networking? Because for two out of the three I've had since college, that's what happened.

It's not the only way, man.

Early on, no, it isn't. I got them other ways too right out of school (well not really, internships helped, which is part of network building). But 80%+ of all jobs (by many measures) are never posted. How would you get one of those jobs without networking? How would you hear about the opening if it isn't posted?

The higher up the jobs are (non entry level) the less likely they are to be posted. So how are you going to find out about them without a network?

[Lafleur]

Originally Posted by timberline742

But 80%+ of all jobs (by many measures) are never posted. How would you get one of those jobs without networking? How would you hear about the opening if it isn't posted?

I don't know where you've worked, but the companies I've worked at had a requirement to post all jobs (non-executive level) to the public. I don't think 80%+ is all that accurate. Do you have a citation for that claim?

I'm not saying that networking isn't important or helpful, but it's not the only way. People just make those hyperbolic claims to feel important about themselves (the 'look at me, I'm important because I have a vast professional network!' crowd).

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Lafleur

I don't know where you've worked, but the companies I've worked at had a requirement to post all jobs (non-executive level) to the public. I don't think 80%+ is all that accurate. Do you have a citation for that claim?

I'm not saying that networking isn't important or helpful, but it's not the only way. People just make those hyperbolic claims to feel important about themselves (the 'look at me, I'm important because I have a vast professional network!' crowd).

There are many independent numbers out there on the 80% mark, here is just one:

Take Your Search for a Job Offline - WSJ


This one says 70%

Why The Best Jobs Are Never Advertised And How To Find Them | Careershifters

This 70-80%

A Successful Job Search: It's All About Networking : NPR

Anyway you slice it, it is a very high number, and to get them, or hear about them, you need to network.

[DavidRudisha]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of jobs are never, ever posted. They are found and filled through networks.

Do you have any data to support your claim that the vast majority of open jobs are filled by external candidates who used "networking"? We also need to define the term if we're going to debate it.

My claim is that, in technical fields at least, skills and experience are so important that you're only going to get the job through "networking" if you have the sufficient skills and experience, in which case you probably would've got the job without networking.

[rzzzz]

Originally Posted by DavidRudisha

My claim is that, in technical fields at least, skills and experience are so important that you're only going to get the job through "networking" if you have the sufficient skills and experience, in which case you probably would've got the job without networking.

finding new jobs in technical fields are almost all networking after the first job. at least that is how you find a good job.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by DavidRudisha

Do you have any data to support your claim that the vast majority of open jobs are filled by external candidates who used "networking"? We also need to define the term if we're going to debate it.

My claim is that, in technical fields at least, skills and experience are so important that you're only going to get the job through "networking" if you have the sufficient skills and experience, in which case you probably would've got the job without networking.

Oh please. If they're never posted, how do you think they are filled except by internally and through networking?

Your claim would make sense if most jobs are posted. But they are not. We know that.

You can believe what you want to believe. It isn't my business and I don't really care what you do. But I think those that have been in the professional workforce awhile will tell you that networking is NOT overrated. I have no interest in debating the term at all. The fewer people that engage in networking the better off I'll be.

[prosopis]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Well who the heck listens to politicians? Seriously? If you want info on the economy, listen to economists.

They are often indistinguishable to me. Krugman for example.
Not every economist is a genius or even a sensible person, many in the news resemble politicians more than thinkers.

Originally Posted by timberline742

And I don't know anyone out there, employed or otherwise that don't think the economy is in much better condition then a few years ago. Hiring is strong. Expansion is going on. It is pretty solid at high levels, mid levels and entry levels and most places in between (help wanted signs are everywhere and have been for quite some time).

It's better than a few years ago, but not better than 10 years ago by any stretch. There is also a huge degree of economic uncertainty for many Americans, seen by many measures - commodity prices, stock prices vs. returns, domestic investment vs. foreign, voting patterns (though I don't want to get into the politics here). But whatever.... sure it's all going swimmingly

Originally Posted by timberline742

And sorry, I don't know what you mean by "how eager will an employer be to find me" or them being "excited" about my application. Excited???!! An employer has never, ever been eager to "find me". I'm eager to find them and sell myself. If people have a sense of privilege about them and consider themselves a prize so they quit because they're not having their egos stroked (if I'm reading you right) then good riddance. You quit the workforce, you're irrelevant at this point economically.

Wow... gettin' kinda spun up there.

I apologize, it seems I was not clear. I meant it as the attitude of optimism on the part of the job seeker, nothing more than that. I probably phrased it poorly.

No employer is thrilled to find you personally - but I certainly have seen them thrilled to find one qualified applicant after 20 under qualified ones. Currently they more likely are choosing between 20 qualified applicants and 80 unqualified.

No one who spends is irrelevant economically. The money they spend comes from somewhere, the goods they consume have to come from somewhere. Only the dead are irrelevant economically.

Probably best to drop this, it is entirely OT anyway. Last word is all yours, have at it.

[MPowering1]

Originally Posted by DavidRudisha

Do you have any data to support your claim that the vast majority of open jobs are filled by external candidates who used "networking"? We also need to define the term if we're going to debate it.

My claim is that, in technical fields at least, skills and experience are so important that you're only going to get the job through "networking" if you have the sufficient skills and experience, in which case you probably would've got the job without networking.

Isn't this just stating the obvious? It isn't being said that you'll be guaranteed to get any job, it's being stated that opportunities are not always published on job boards.

I'm pretty sure most people here are already assuming that if you don't have the skills and experience, networking isn't going to land you just any job.