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Old 02-06-2015, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,780,716 times
Reputation: 3369

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidRudisha View Post
Even programming requires less skill because you can write sloppy, inefficient code, and the sophisticated interpreters/compilers of today will assemble into something that works well.
This is not true. Sloppy code almost always result in visible problems down the road. Either in security flaws, unaccounted for situations (you didn't check that a variable is not null or 0 before attempting to calculate a division with it), etc.
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:30 PM
 
7,925 posts, read 7,818,729 times
Reputation: 4152
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Yup, and when they finish, they get union security and high paying secure positions. Sadly, I don't see our country going that route.
Unless...they are Turkish.
Turkish job applicants exposed to discrimination in Germany

Study finds major discrimination against Turkish job applicants - The Local

Day-to-day business of racial discrimination in Germany | Destination Europe | DW.DE | 29.12.2011

A Hard Look at Discrimination in Education in Germany | Open Society Foundations (OSF)
"The German school system has traditionally been highly stratified, with students attending Gymnasium (the highest level school preparing students for university studies), Realschule (the intermediate level), or Hauptschule (the lowest level, which prepares children for work or vocational training). These days, a Hauptschule education most often leads to unemployment or, at best, a low-income job with little hope of career advancement.

Evidence demonstrates that children of Turkish, Kurdish or Arabic backgrounds—known as “migrant” children in Germany even if they are the second or even third generation of immigrants—wind up in disproportionate numbers in the lowest level Hauptschule, condemning them to a cycle of marginalization.

Migrant children in Germany, on average, attend a Hauptschule twice as often as even other children of the same socioeconomic class. Migrant children, despite some progress, also continue to be underrepresented in the highest-level Gymnasiums. In short, the German education system is failing to help children overcome the disadvantage and marginalization that they experience as a result of their background, including as ethnic or religious minorities."

Europe doesn't have equality. It is largely a myth. The same with Algerians in France, Catholics in N.Ireland, north Africans in Italy and of course the Roma all over the place.
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Old 02-07-2015, 02:02 AM
 
6,438 posts, read 6,918,932 times
Reputation: 8743
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
Couple of years ago I was tasked to look into ways to fully automate the secretary work with software.

Key areas that we worked on are:

- Voice dictation and commands.

- Telephone automation.

- Business automation.

Today, many of those objectives are completed and they no longer hire as many secretaries they needed to perform those duties that you mentioned.
That's right, and those fewer secretaries need to be much more skilled than before.
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Old 02-07-2015, 06:27 AM
 
6,769 posts, read 5,488,755 times
Reputation: 17649
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
College is great, but the country has to keep valuing the blue collar working man as well. All the education and money in the world will not mean much if the toilet doesn't flush because the guys in the sewer dept are getting slave wages and don't care about the quality of the work they do anymore.

We have a huge labor problem in this country because it seems everyone wants things done so cheaply. We can only import so many Mexicans to do important jobs like roofing houses and many other tasks.

Everyone wants to sit in a cubicle and type on a computer and expects to get paid 6 figures for it but who is going to do the real work? Why doesn't Obama address the lack of skilled workers? Why not encourage technical training as well?
This.
There will ALWYS be a need for the "grunt work" to be done. Ever see the show "Drity Jobs"? Someone has to clean the sewers. Someone has to serve the food in a diner while you are out on the road or don't want to cook. Someone has to clean the toilets in the airport you fly around the world in, in the hotel and the cruise ship your fancy 6 figure vacations buys you every year. Someone has to pick the fruits and vegetables the 6 figure people eat {ok bad example that as most is done by illegal immigrants}. Some jobs just CANNOT be replaced by a machine or robot.

I/we have done fairly well for ourselves, at the lower eschelons. We can pay our bills {and exhorbitant medical costs for a few maladies, now that insurance covers bupkiss}, eat and put some money in savings. We take a "major vacation" saved for over 5 years everytime then. I wish we were better valued members of society and got at least the mid 5 figues, but we manage on the lower 5 figures. We have to,

I've said before and I will say it again, the wealthy keep getting wealthy and what will they do when only the wealthy remain? Who will clean their toilets or cook their food if only the wealthy are left then? For they SURELY won't know how! They will die of fecal diseases and starvation always relying on someone to do it for them. And diseases DON'T discriminate based on wealth!

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Old 02-07-2015, 06:36 AM
 
6,769 posts, read 5,488,755 times
Reputation: 17649
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Unless...they are Turkish.
Turkish job applicants exposed to discrimination in Germany

Study finds major discrimination against Turkish job applicants - The Local

Day-to-day business of racial discrimination in Germany | Destination Europe | DW.DE | 29.12.2011

A Hard Look at Discrimination in Education in Germany | Open Society Foundations (OSF)
"The German school system has traditionally been highly stratified, with students attending Gymnasium (the highest level school preparing students for university studies), Realschule (the intermediate level), or Hauptschule (the lowest level, which prepares children for work or vocational training). These days, a Hauptschule education most often leads to unemployment or, at best, a low-income job with little hope of career advancement.

Evidence demonstrates that children of Turkish, Kurdish or Arabic backgrounds—known as “migrant” children in Germany even if they are the second or even third generation of immigrants—wind up in disproportionate numbers in the lowest level Hauptschule, condemning them to a cycle of marginalization.

Migrant children in Germany, on average, attend a Hauptschule twice as often as even other children of the same socioeconomic class. Migrant children, despite some progress, also continue to be underrepresented in the highest-level Gymnasiums. In short, the German education system is failing to help children overcome the disadvantage and marginalization that they experience as a result of their background, including as ethnic or religious minorities."

Europe doesn't have equality. It is largely a myth. The same with Algerians in France, Catholics in N.Ireland, north Africans in Italy and of course the Roma all over the place.
I agree Germany is not a panacea for all the ills of the world. MY MIL was German. I also know a German guy, for instance, who was trained for and was executive material for years. Their wages were ntoa s stellar as we hear about for executives here as that is how their system works there. He is now on the "public dole" as in his 50s there are "no jobs" for him anymore. His income was higher, but savings have been gone through waiting for the next big thing to come along, and for him it hasn't yet, if ever again. He is considered "to old" to work now. AND he is NOT considered for "sewer work" as that is not his training. And German penisons AREN't what he was taught/thought they would be now. No ONe's pension the world over is "safe" anymore. And now he needs new glasses and their supposed Wonderful "healthcare for everyone" plan isn't providing him with them. WOnderful system, lets all move there! Its no better than ours.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,780,716 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Europe doesn't have equality. It is largely a myth.
this is so true. They openly discrminate against the darker skinned races: against Latin Americans (particularly those with indigenous features), against people from the Middle East, against the Africans and North Africans. Against the gypsys, against the Slavic peoples. Nowadays in the U.S. it's "politically incorrect" to give any hint of racism, but in Europe it's blatant.
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Old 02-09-2015, 11:26 AM
 
897 posts, read 1,180,446 times
Reputation: 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
This.
There will ALWYS be a need for the "grunt work" to be done. Ever see the show "Drity Jobs"? Someone has to clean the sewers. Someone has to serve the food in a diner while you are out on the road or don't want to cook. Someone has to clean the toilets in the airport you fly around the world in, in the hotel and the cruise ship your fancy 6 figure vacations buys you every year. Someone has to pick the fruits and vegetables the 6 figure people eat {ok bad example that as most is done by illegal immigrants}. Some jobs just CANNOT be replaced by a machine or robot.

Agreed. Not everyone can be the kings and queens of the world. Sounds harsh, but that's how the world turns. Someone has to be the gardener. Someone has to be the electrician. Someone has to be the plumber. But those people usually know it and are fine with it. That's their calling.
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