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That's the thing though - 20 and more years ago you were supposed to GO TO SCHOOL. A few kids got into band or were on a sports team but the extracurriculars were far fewer, not as intense, and kids weren't in 10 things at once! No, you can't just add a job on top of that - you DO have to decide what is important for your kid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Really? I graduated in 1990. My school/community had a full load of sports available, speech and debate, FHA and a few other academic related extra-curriculars, band, choir, church groups, Scout groups, etc... And most of my friends worked in a job on top of those. While I see fewer working, my kids experience doesn't seem vastly different. What's been added?
I've taught at the college level. Many of my students were not nearly as well prepared for school as my age group. They'd missed the skills learned from jobs. Multi-tasking, scheduling, prioritizing...
Some studies indicate that a small job while schooling is beneficial. Say 10-15 hours/wk.
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply jobs aren't good. BUT, parents and kids are NOT choosing them above a plethora of extracurriculars. If you are doing 4 extras you are just NOT going to work on top of it. If work is the last priority then kids won't do it.
But I will say, scouting and FHA are not as popular as they used to be. Instead it is the extra intense travelling sports crap supported by delusional parents thinking their kids will get scholarships out of it. But, of course they do learn the whole team-building thing and that's what every company hypes even though much of work is not really cooperative anyway! Sorry, rant over.
Really? I graduated in 1990. My school/community had a full load of sports available, speech and debate, FHA and a few other academic related extra-curriculars, band, choir, church groups, Scout groups, etc... And most of my friends worked in a job on top of those. While I see fewer working, my kids experience doesn't seem vastly different. What's been added?
I've taught at the college level. Many of my students were not nearly as well prepared for school as my age group. They'd missed the skills learned from jobs. Multi-tasking, scheduling, prioritizing...
Some studies indicate that a small job while schooling is beneficial. Say 10-15 hours/wk.
I graduated in 1990 too. And now I have kids of my own. Let me tell you, high school, and even middle school, is nothing like it was when we were in school. I never got 3-4 hours of homework a night, and I was in honors classes. Now it's the norm.
I worked in an office every day after school (monday - friday) from 3ish to 530 my Junior and Senior year of high school. It was the only way for me to have any spending money. I didn't have parents who could provide for me in that way with extra spending money. This was in the 90's. I'm sure a lot has changed and it seems like lots of parents think that having their children work part time jobs is considered low class and a shame upon themselves or something? I don't know. I was a straight A student (in a crappy high school though). So work never got in the way of my studies, I would come home and do my homework until about 8 or so and then i'd just veg out and geek out online (AOL, Prodigy, IRC, etc). I was a bit of an introvert and terrified that if I didn't get my act together i'd wind up like my crappy family.
I think the problem is that too many parents push their kids to be geniuses when they are clearly NOT. Of course the opposite is true for many people as well.
I wouldn't have been able to go on shopping sprees in NYC every weekend without that part time job! Perhaps someone should have taught me about saving and investing, but I am not from that ilk and don't mind anymore. I used to get pissy about it.
I will say one thing though. THANK YOU UNIVERSE I didn't have the helicopter parents that are the norm today. EEEKS! (I was raised by my maternal grandparents who really couldn't give a crap what I was doing as long as I wasn't getting into trouble...)
I see people my age loading their kids with the most absurd activities and extra curricular activities, clearing half the time living out their own pathetic fantasies.. I don't want to judge TOO hard though because I do actually wish I was pushed harder as a kid and teenager into various things.
Now that I think about it, my grandparents tried to make me join sports stuff a few times, but that was a fail. They were always cool about it. I think my grandparents were part of a chill generation, that generation right before the boomers? I'd probably have killed myself if I had boomer parents. Sorry, just saying it like it is.
Really? I graduated in 1990. My school/community had a full load of sports available, speech and debate, FHA and a few other academic related extra-curriculars, band, choir, church groups, Scout groups, etc... And most of my friends worked in a job on top of those. While I see fewer working, my kids experience doesn't seem vastly different. What's been added?
I've taught at the college level. Many of my students were not nearly as well prepared for school as my age group. They'd missed the skills learned from jobs. Multi-tasking, scheduling, prioritizing...
Some studies indicate that a small job while schooling is beneficial. Say 10-15 hours/wk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply jobs aren't good. BUT, parents and kids are NOT choosing them above a plethora of extracurriculars. If you are doing 4 extras you are just NOT going to work on top of it. If work is the last priority then kids won't do it.
But I will say, scouting and FHA are not as popular as they used to be. Instead it is the extra intense travelling sports crap supported by delusional parents thinking their kids will get scholarships out of it. But, of course they do learn the whole team-building thing and that's what every company hypes even though much of work is not really cooperative anyway! Sorry, rant over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal
I graduated in 1990 too. And now I have kids of my own. Let me tell you, high school, and even middle school, is nothing like it was when we were in school. I never got 3-4 hours of homework a night, and I was in honors classes. Now it's the norm.
These all kind of go together. What's been added you ask? Sports today are way more demanding and intense than when we were kids. Everything has become an all or nothing choice so if a kid wants to play, say soccer, for her high school team, then she also better be playing on a club team. DD played on one that was pretty benign compared to teams we played against. We only did 3-5 weekend tournaments a season, where some of these clubs were out of town 2-3 weekends a month. And while our DD choose college academics over athletics, every kid on her team that wanted a scholarship got one.
Then with all the NCLB, CC, high stakes, standardized testing going on, there is a lot more homework every day. 3-5 hours a night is common.
College costs are so high that many more people are worrying earlier about getting into a good college and getting scholarships. Both of these require outstanding grades, outstanding test scores, membership in various high school clubs, honor societies, and activities, and sports. The competition has gotten so intense because the bar keeps getting raised. Not sure what college you've been teaching in, but most of these kids have been multi tasking, scheduling, and prioritizing for years. What they haven't been doing is actually learning how to study because that doesn't help raise standardized test scores (but that's a different issue from working).
These all kind of go together. What's been added you ask? Sports today are way more demanding and intense than when we were kids. Everything has become an all or nothing choice so if a kid wants to play, say soccer, for her high school team, then she also better be playing on a club team. DD played on one that was pretty benign compared to teams we played against. We only did 3-5 weekend tournaments a season, where some of these clubs were out of town 2-3 weekends a month. And while our DD choose college academics over athletics, every kid on her team that wanted a scholarship got one.
Then with all the NCLB, CC, high stakes, standardized testing going on, there is a lot more homework every day. 3-5 hours a night is common.
College costs are so high that many more people are worrying earlier about getting into a good college and getting scholarships. Both of these require outstanding grades, outstanding test scores, membership in various high school clubs, honor societies, and activities, and sports. The competition has gotten so intense because the bar keeps getting raised. Not sure what college you've been teaching in, but most of these kids have been multi tasking, scheduling, and prioritizing for years. What they haven't been doing is actually learning how to study because that doesn't help raise standardized test scores (but that's a different issue from working).
Naw, their parents were multi-tasking, scheduling and prioritizing for them in a lot of cases.
Had a family member go the intense sports route in hopes of a scholarship. Bit of a waste, as. Otho g materialized despite the kids talent. Sports can dominate. That's definitely a choice. The admissions folks I know give as much or more weight to a job over sports for college.
PS-Glad you don't know which schools I've taught at. Be kinda freaky if ya did!
I graduated in 1990 too. And now I have kids of my own. Let me tell you, high school, and even middle school, is nothing like it was when we were in school. I never got 3-4 hours of homework a night, and I was in honors classes. Now it's the norm.
I will match your anecdotal evidence with my own from my kids (they get good grades, take advanced courses and don't have much more homework than I did) and raise it by mentioning that research indicates working 10-15 hrs wk is beneficial academically.
I will match your anecdotal evidence with my own from my kids (they get good grades, take advanced courses and don't have much more homework than I did) and raise it by mentioning that research indicates working 10-15 hrs wk is beneficial academically.
This article talks about college students. Your second study was done involving HS students who are now adults in my age bracket (graduating in the mid-'90s). I am not sure either of those are relevant to this topic of whether it's beneficial for high school students TODAY to be working. People of my age had it much easier getting into college because there were relatively few generation Xers and there were also more jobs that didn't require a college education.
As to whether a school values a job or sports, it really depends on the school. At some of the elite schools, sports can be valued heavily. As an example, the entering freshman class fact sheet where I went to grad school doesn't even mention what percentage of students took part in varsity sports. It only mentions what percentage were captains of those teams (almost half). One third were also the head of a student organization. Almost all took part in volunteer activities, half did arts activities, etc.
Twenty years ago, you could do just one or two activities, be a good student, and get significant funding to go to a flagship state school. Nowadays, it's ultra competitive to even get into the flagship state school. Many states treat their flagship schools as public private schools with really high tuition and don't give out good scholarships to go there. I know someone who graduated from one of those schools around 8 years after I did, worked essentially full time at a pretty decent pay rate and still came out with significant debt a decade ago. Flash forward to now and costs are even worse!
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