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If your mom can, she should try to find a new job. Once she has one secure, she could sue the owner for the wages as well as mental anguish during the week in question she essentially had no paycheck. What he did was illegal. Maybe the laws are different in America though...
Just a little bit of clarification on where I stand.
My mom is her own person and she is very frustrating for me to talk with about this stuff. She is stubborn and doesn't want the drama to go along with reporting such a thing. I doubt she will file anything with the state of IL which she works in. I don't know if she signed anything allowing them to deduct from her paycheck or not but I will ask next time this conversation with her comes up. Thank you all for you help and clarifying what is legal versus illegal.
Unless this is a union shop or they have an employment contract/employee handbook that says otherwise, they can fire anyone for any reason or no reason.
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Originally Posted by whogo
Yes, you can. In most states an employer can fire you for any reason (besides being a member of a protected class) at any time.
Yes. I misspoke. I meant they can't fire you AND not allow you to collect unemployment. So my mom would at least be able to collect. They have to have a proven record of mistakes in order to avoid paying unemployment.
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Originally Posted by eastcoastguyz
You are arguing a matter of accounting. An employer isn't going to eat the cost for a business loss. It has to come from somewhere. If the employees are the ones who have control over the business loss, then they are the ones to pay for it. Look, even if the employees were perfect and business is slow that year, they will pay for it anyway in lower raises or no raises, or bonuses. The fact that the mistake is going to immediately come out of the employee's paycheck is really no different.
Incorrect. It is an accounting issue that is quite often dealt with. The loss would be considered a business loss and written off. Frequently they ship meat that gets "held" up by fedex or UPS and never makes it in time for the meat to still be good. One time there was a train derailment in PA that delayed all deliveries to the area for a week. Some of their meat got stuck in that delay and it was rotten by the time it arrived. It does happen and this loss should be treated no differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastguyz
It is easier that or fire the employee, or take it out of their year-end bonus.
It doesn't matter how well the company is doing. A company doesn't throw money away by rewarding employees for being sloppy with their work.
My mom didn't want a reward, just didn't want to penalized. I don't think it's fair no matter how large the loss is. If she threw her cigarette in a bush outside and the whole place burned down should she become their slave for life? How far can a mistake be taken to the point of milking a person void of any soul? I just don't think it's fair for a business who ASSUMES risk can pass off their risk to those who are making them money.
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Originally Posted by ratherbcrazycatlady
When one owns a business that bases it's profitability on delivered perishable products, why wouldn't a knowledgeable business owner have insurance for loss?
Or go to your mother's state's Dept of Labor web site and find out who to contact. She may not need a lawyer.
Great post and good point! Thank you for the info!
Quote:
Originally Posted by startingfromscratchagain
If your mom can, she should try to find a new job. Once she has one secure, she could sue the owner for the wages as well as mental anguish during the week in question she essentially had no paycheck. What he did was illegal. Maybe the laws are different in America though...
She has looked SOOOO much! I feel bad for her, she is older and she has a very hard time finding anything. She has had a couple of interviews but no luck so far. I tried redoing her resume for her and that didn't help much.
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Originally Posted by convextech
We give one week's pay as a bonus at Christmas time to reward our employees for being good workers. We also pay very well so we can assure they will stay on with us.
That is very nice of you guys! I only meant that for someone who messed up that bad, they shouldn't even be eligible. But if his past history is good enough, I could see why it would be hard to not offer one.
Just a little bit of clarification on where I stand.
My mom is her own person and she is very frustrating for me to talk with about this stuff. She is stubborn and doesn't want the drama to go along with reporting such a thing. I doubt she will file anything with the state of IL which she works in. I don't know if she signed anything allowing them to deduct from her paycheck or not but I will ask next time this conversation with her comes up. Thank you all for you help and clarifying what is legal versus illegal.
You might be able to report it for her and the DOL will investigate or at least write the owner a threatening letter saying he better not pull that.
I have noticed that re-drafting my resume has had marginal if any results. The main issue is that people have low value in todays world. The market is over saturated with people and unless you have some kind of super star skills no one is really going to care.
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Originally Posted by ChiGuy2.5
Yes. I misspoke. I meant they can't fire you AND not allow you to collect unemployment. So my mom would at least be able to collect. They have to have a proven record of mistakes in order to avoid paying unemployment.
Incorrect. It is an accounting issue that is quite often dealt with. The loss would be considered a business loss and written off. Frequently they ship meat that gets "held" up by fedex or UPS and never makes it in time for the meat to still be good. One time there was a train derailment in PA that delayed all deliveries to the area for a week. Some of their meat got stuck in that delay and it was rotten by the time it arrived. It does happen and this loss should be treated no differently.
My mom didn't want a reward, just didn't want to penalized. I don't think it's fair no matter how large the loss is. If she threw her cigarette in a bush outside and the whole place burned down should she become their slave for life? How far can a mistake be taken to the point of milking a person void of any soul? I just don't think it's fair for a business who ASSUMES risk can pass off their risk to those who are making them money.
Great post and good point! Thank you for the info!
She has looked SOOOO much! I feel bad for her, she is older and she has a very hard time finding anything. She has had a couple of interviews but no luck so far. I tried redoing her resume for her and that didn't help much.
That is very nice of you guys! I only meant that for someone who messed up that bad, they shouldn't even be eligible. But if his past history is good enough, I could see why it would be hard to not offer one.
When one owns a business that bases it's profitability on delivered perishable products, why wouldn't a knowledgeable business owner have insurance for loss?
He collected the loss from his employee, he may have collected the loss reimbursement through insurance claim, and he can certainly claim the loss when doing his taxes. It's a business expense. The guy sounds like a huge ass who is taking advantage of people who don't know any facts about profit and loss protection, or labor laws.
Or go to your mother's state's Dept of Labor web site and find out who to contact. She may not need a lawyer.
ALL insurance policies have a deductible. And if you make a couple of insurance claims, your insurance rates will go sky high and you risk being dropped. If you lose your business insurance, good luck getting a new policy. The number of insurance companies that insurance businesses is far fewer than those who provide auto insurance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuy2.5
Incorrect. It is an accounting issue that is quite often dealt with. The loss would be considered a business loss and written off. Frequently they ship meat that gets "held" up by fedex or UPS and never makes it in time for the meat to still be good. One time there was a train derailment in PA that delayed all deliveries to the area for a week. Some of their meat got stuck in that delay and it was rotten by the time it arrived. It does happen and this loss should be treated no differently.
When one ships through FedEx and UPS, their items are insured. Same with when they are shipped via cargo. When something like this happens, the buyer gets a refund from the insurance on the product. This is standard in the shipping world. I deal with it every day.
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Originally Posted by JoeCartpath
One thing not mentioned is the $800 figure. If that was an $800 order, the owner's actual loss was far lower than that. Just sayin....
Yes, it is. The business owner was out the cost of the meat, the shipping, the shipping packaging, the cost of the employee's entering the order and packing the order, and the profit on the sale. So actually, they're out more money than the $800. Learn about cost accounting and you'll see all the costs involved with running a business.
I once had a summer job where the first set of required clothing was provided by the employer, but if the employee lost or damaged it, the amount was docked from pay in order to get a new set of clothing. Didn't seem all that strange to me.
I only threw in that detail to give some context as to how successful the business is. To show it has nothing to do with the business struggling but I do understand it isn't necessary.
The problem with hiring a lawyer for this is that A) My mom has no money, she barely makes enough to support a living and B) She would obviously lose her job if she did hire a lawyer which further complicates her money issues.
How exactly does one go about whistle blowing on their own employer when they rely on that employer for a living? She has tried to find other jobs but has been unsuccessful. I even helped her remake her whole resume and everything.
She could try Legal Aide - they helped my son get his rightful child visitation without charging him a penny. They might be able to see to it that she doesn't get fired, however that doesn't mean they won't make her life hell afterward.
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