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My questions are as follows:
1) What do you think of this practice? Does it seem fair?
2) Do any of you know if this is this even legal?
This is an interesting question.
One of our employees, who we normally trust complicitly, recently had an incident where he tried to get into a gated community through a back gate (instead of accessing the main gate like we normally do, to log our being there and get a pass for the day).
He broke the back gate, and now we are responsible, to the tune of about $1200.
We aren't considering firing him, but we are discussing taking this amount out of his bonus at the end of the year. This guy has worked for us for years, and he knows the proper etiquette for going into this (and any other gated community), so it's not as if he didn't know any better.
Employers that dock employee pay for occasional mistakes are disgusting. Human error is a cost of doing business, and that cost should be born by the shareholder, not the employee.
It's as though the shareholders are trying to call the employees "shareholders" in situations where money is lost (i.e. "we lose money, you lose money"), but "employees" in situations where business is good (i.e. "we're the risk takers, we deserve to keep every penny"). If you want employees to share in losses, then you need to allow them to share in the gains as well- this is typically how a "profit sharing" or contingent bonus pool works. But you do NOT take it from the employee's base pay.
In many states it's illegal, and in those where it is legal, it's a sign of weakness on behalf of the employer.
People ARE going to make mistakes. Unless they have some super awesome automated way of preventing human error it is bound to happen occasionally. My mom has made 2 errors in her 6 years of employment there. Plus, I KNOW you can't legally fire someone for making a mistake occasionally. If she were a frequent offender then I would understand your comment however since she isn't I find it quite heartless.
I agree with you regarding humans and errors, we all do it. However, I live in a right to work state and can be fired for no reason at all. Just saying...and it is perfectly legal.
Because the owner is being cheap and paying low wages with no checks. If he has no checking (QA/QC) process for such high stakes orders then that's on him. He is trying to do this operation on the cheap so he can rake in the profits so when something goes awry he should eat it because he is the one cutting corners.
Luckily it was just bad meat, I have heard of owners going under or even facing jail time if someone gets hurt or killed and it was found they were cutting corners (engineering codes, safety factors, manufacturer recommended maintenance etc). I have heard all the excuses, well it was just "recommended" maintenance so we let everything go to pot and someone got hurt.
The issue with getting a lawyer is it is almost never worth it unless it can be proven this is a recurring problem and you can get significant punitive damages to tide her over to find a new job along with unemployment benefits.
I am excited to see more of these owner types get their wee-wee's stepped on because its unacceptable business practices. If its a high stakes order or process then you have AT LEAST one checker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton
Why do you think it is reasonable for the business owner to eat the loss because of your mother's mistake?
Yes, docking pay is legal as long as the deductions don't take the employee under minimum wage. So, he cannot take someone's paycheck, but he can dock her $20 per week for 40 weeks to get his money back (or whatever the math works out to to keep her at minimum wage). Depending on your state, this may or may not be also addressed at the state level, so you need to check with them.
Absolutely not. The company must take the brunt of their employees' mistakes. Is the company going to reward the employee similarly if they come across a sweet supplier deal? The hell they are.
If they want to take it further then they must make it a disciplinary. And within fair grounds you can dock pay. But you can't fine employees like that, if they do they are acting immorally and illegally.
One of our employees, who we normally trust complicitly, recently had an incident where he tried to get into a gated community through a back gate (instead of accessing the main gate like we normally do, to log our being there and get a pass for the day).
He broke the back gate, and now we are responsible, to the tune of about $1200.
We aren't considering firing him, but we are discussing taking this amount out of his bonus at the end of the year. This guy has worked for us for years, and he knows the proper etiquette for going into this (and any other gated community), so it's not as if he didn't know any better.
I am curious how your situation pans out.
That is definitely different though. He avoided following procedure AND purposely broke the gate. That isn't the same and yes I do think you should take it out of his "bonus". Why he even gets a bonus is beyond me. So that does sound reasonable to me.
Most people can be legally fired for a single mistake. I don't think it's a good idea or anything, but it's legal. Paying somebody less than minimum wage is not.
You're right, you can fire them. I meant fire them for just cause which would make them ineligible for unemployment. Firing, even for huge mistakes will still allow you to collect unemployment. My brain forgot to mention that detail.
Absolutely not. The company must take the brunt of their employees' mistakes. Is the company going to reward the employee similarly if they come across a sweet supplier deal? The hell they are.
If they want to take it further then they must make it a disciplinary. And within fair grounds you can dock pay. But you can't fine employees like that, if they do they are acting immorally and illegally.
Docking pay and issuing a fine are the same thing and it is highly unlikely either is legal. The issue is can she get significant punitive damages to make it worth it or should she just quietly look for a new job.
I only threw in that detail to give some context as to how successful the business is. To show it has nothing to do with the business struggling but I do understand it isn't necessary.
The problem with hiring a lawyer for this is that A) My mom has no money, she barely makes enough to support a living and B) She would obviously lose her job if she did hire a lawyer which further complicates her money issues.
How exactly does one go about whistle blowing on their own employer when they rely on that employer for a living? She has tried to find other jobs but has been unsuccessful. I even helped her remake her whole resume and everything.
You don't need to hire a lawyer. All you have to do is go online for your area's Dept. of Labor, and make a complaint, or call your local office. Here is the national link....that will allow you to search for your local or State DOL office. There are Labor Lawyers in the Dept. free.https://www.dol.gov/
While on the site, check out local job opportunities, and any special programs that will assist your Mom in finding a better job. If she meets criteria for certain programs, senior, displaced homemaker, disabled etc. there may be programs that will assist and or retrain her for a better job(paid training). Check on those for her.
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