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I think you are being too passive. And you have an "Us vs Them" attitude which was fine when the Union would stick up for you, but nowadays in most cases you have to stick up for yourself.
You sound young. How old are you? You won't be young forever. And some day "just enough to get by" according to you may be deemed "not enough" by your employer, and then what?
Then I would expect to be compensated in somewhat by going above and beyond.
If an employer has a job description and I am meeting those requirements whats the ruckus all about then?
You are meeting the job description requirements you are doing your job which is " JUST GOOD ENOUGH"
You do not have to go above and beyond your job duties, and you should not be shamed into thinking you should. If someone only wants to do their job, be it doing it well or the bare minimum to not be fired, it is there right. They will be the ones to live with the consequence or benefits of their decisions. Usually, they will have very little blow-back from just "doing their job" because that's what you're paid for. Really, I would argue that in any job where someone can be "easily replaced" or trained, you have little to no overlooking incentive to go above and beyond. On occasion, you may be given individual incentives or find them in particular situations that make you feel the need to do so, but there is no obligation, requirement, or even consequence of just doing your job. ~ It's called work for a reason. You are paid to "work" a certain way at a certain level the more entry level the position is.
If we're talking about a "career" or what I would term a profession, however, I think the benefits of going above and beyond are as follows: satisfaction of doing something important to you and doing it well, securing your status and or wealth, building your network, and potential opportunities for advancement if the environment is right, or job growth elsewhere if going beyond gets you exposure to something more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994
I think you are being too passive. And you have an "Us vs Them" attitude which was fine when the Union would stick up for you, but nowadays in most cases you have to stick up for yourself.
You sound young. How old are you? You won't be young forever. And some day "just enough to get by" according to you may be deemed "not enough" by your employer, and then what?
Excellent, Great, good, average, bad, and terrible. Someone doing the 'bare minimum by their standards" can easily fall within the good or maybe even great spectrum as a worker. If that weren't the case everyone would have been born with the same level of intelligence, aptitude, and ability. One man's average is another man's outstanding
I'm in the pharmaceutical industry and I used to think like this but my previous work environment was toxic. Harder I worked, more workload I got and I learned nothing new. My current employer is a startup and it has made me challenge myself. I was hoping for an opportunity like this to show on my door for years and finally I got it. Without them asking I just started going 'above and beyond' for my job. I never thought this was possible. You should go above and beyond for yourself. Yes money is important but if you're average you're first to go during hard times. Learn all you can while employed at a place, then if you're not happy then time to move on. I'm able to learn sophisticated instruments that none of my previous employers provided. Even if my job or company goes away, what I learn from my current job is very valuable for my next employer.
Sorry, but I've seen with my own eyes how hard workers get screwed over - and these were people who were always helping and volunteering and doing a great job. The most they got was more work. Whereas the smooth talker who knew how to schmooze with management was the one who got the money and the promotions.
Sure, there might be some companies out there who truly reward hard work, but most of them reward the person who strokes their ego the most.
One of my co-workers is has a strange supervisory role. She gets a special 'seat' like a supervisor normally would. She supports the management by training new staff and being around in interviews and general employee reviews. She takes on piles of extra work, so much that she has to come in on her days off. She takes on the really tough customers - companies that not even managers want to touch. She's been there for nearly a decade and has a little to no power above her co-workers.
What does she get in return? Extra pay, higher treatment, better opportunity? No, she gets... even more work! The management tired of disciplining her irresponsible behavior and has yielded to simply taking advantage of it. She won't get anything for her loyalty or efficiency. And the second this walking canister of resentment, which has been building up for years, is in danger of finally reaching breaking point: she'll be booted out like a bad temp. And it will be her fault.
When you are given a job by a company, you stick to the job. That is what you are there for. If you want more responsibility then you negotiate it in an amicable way. If you can't meet eye to eye, stay or go. You do NOT launch your hands onto other peoples' where you shouldn't be or go running around in areas where you clearly have no authorization. Your management has enough problems to deal with let alone a runaway lone gun vigilante employee with their own ideas about how to be a company running amok. On top of all their problems, that is the last thing they want.
Being RESPONSIBLE for your RESPONSIBILITIES is being RESPONSIBLE.
1: The ones that do no more than they absolutely need to do their job. Lazy, with no ambition. They complain that the others that work a little harder and are the ones the bosses turn to always get the promotions and raises. They call these the ones that are the boss's pets and a** kissers. They wonder why they don't get the raises, and promotions.
2: The ones that do more than needed, who get the bosses attention. The ones the bosses spend time with, as they can show the bosses how things improve when they do certain things. The ones that get the raises, and promotions. They get them not because they kiss up to the bosses, etc., that the #1 group complain about, they get them because they are the only ones that deserve the raises and promotions.
I was always in the #2 category and never worked very long anywhere, until I was in the group where I made more money and got promoted. Went to work in the corporate world for 10 years as a salesperson. Within weeks was a group manage, and within a year, a district manager. A couple of years later, a district sales manager over 2 states. I was at the top, division sales manager for half the country. I quit, when I got tired being transferred around, and wanted to get away from that life.
I watched a lot of who could be top people that only wanted to do the minimum to keep the job. They complained when they did not get raises, or promotions. To get either, you have to show you are worth more than the minimum. You only get what you earn. You have two choices, work the minimum and complain you cannot get raises and promotions. Do your best, and get the raises and promotions. I know as I have been on both ends, getting the raises and promotions, and giving raises and promotions. In the long run everyone gets what the earn. The unfortunate thing is, there are a lot of good people, that if they showed the initiative could get the raises and promotions.
I turned down a big promotion years ago, working at one of the top 10 department stores in the nation in late 1960s, as a commissioned furniture salesman. I had turned down position of manager of furniture department when I went to work as it would cost me about $10,000 to $20,000 in lost commission doing the managers work off the sales floor distracting from time selling furniture. After I had been there 3 years earning over $125,000 a year in today's dollars, I was told they wanted me to take a division managers position over several departments which paid $55,000 a year in today's dollars. I told them I did not want the promotion and wanted to stay selling. They told me they needed me, and I had to take the promotion. I told them I quit.
Went home and called a friend at the furniture store the Industry had voted the #1 furniture store in the nation that year, the second time in 5 years which in itself was a record. He ran the carpet department, and asked him if he knew anyone that could use me. I knew I had no chance of going to work there, as they had not hired a new salesman in 12 years. He called me back in 5 minutes or so, and told me to get right down there to see the manager. I went down and found that they had a man retiring the end of the month, and had just taken vacation time for the rest of the time he would be with them. Said he had heard I was the best furniture salesman in town, and was trying to figure out how to approach me to get me to go to work for them. As he was discussing it with the managers on a group call to the other 3 stores the family owned, in walked my friend. He had only one question, could I start the next morning. I did and my income increased. I was out of a job for a whole half of a day.
My wife was getting in bad health due to rapidly developing smog in the area, so we were going to have to move to a cleaner area of the country. He called me into his office, and told me that (as I already knew), they were building a new store in another small city 50 miles away. He asked me if I would manage it for them, with a salary much better than my commissions were, plus a bonus if we exceeded goals and the bonus could be huge as it was a percentage of the extra income. I had to turn it down, as I told him why I was going to have to move. It was something we both hated for me to have to do.
If you want raises and promotions, you have to demonstrate why you deserve them. I am saying that from the point of view of someone that got the raises and promotions when many did not. I also say it from the point of view when I managed, and I was the one giving the raises. Do the minimum, and you don't deserve a raise, or promotion. You are getting paid, for what you are worth to the company.
1: The ones that do no more than they absolutely need to do their job. Lazy, with no ambition. They complain that the others that work a little harder and are the ones the bosses turn to always get the promotions and raises. They call these the ones that are the boss's pets and a** kissers. They wonder why they don't get the raises, and promotions.
2: The ones that do more than needed, who get the bosses attention. The ones the bosses spend time with, as they can show the bosses how things improve when they do certain things. The ones that get the raises, and promotions. They get them not because they kiss up to the bosses, etc., that the #1 group complain about, they get them because they are the only ones that deserve the raises and promotions.
I was always in the #2 category and never worked very long anywhere, until I was in the group where I made more money and got promoted. Went to work in the corporate world for 10 years as a salesperson. Within weeks was a group manage, and within a year, a district manager. A couple of years later, a district sales manager over 2 states. I was at the top, division sales manager for half the country. I quit, when I got tired being transferred around, and wanted to get away from that life.
I watched a lot of who could be top people that only wanted to do the minimum to keep the job. They complained when they did not get raises, or promotions. To get either, you have to show you are worth more than the minimum. You only get what you earn. You have two choices, work the minimum and complain you cannot get raises and promotions. Do your best, and get the raises and promotions. I know as I have been on both ends, getting the raises and promotions, and giving raises and promotions. In the long run everyone gets what the earn. The unfortunate thing is, there are a lot of good people, that if they showed the initiative could get the raises and promotions.
I turned down a big promotion years ago, working at one of the top 10 department stores in the nation in late 1960s, as a commissioned furniture salesman. I had turned down position of manager of furniture department when I went to work as it would cost me about $10,000 to $20,000 in lost commission doing the managers work off the sales floor distracting from time selling furniture. After I had been there 3 years earning over $125,000 a year in today's dollars, I was told they wanted me to take a division managers position over several departments which paid $55,000 a year in today's dollars. I told them I did not want the promotion and wanted to stay selling. They told me they needed me, and I had to take the promotion. I told them I quit.
Went home and called a friend at the furniture store the Industry had voted the #1 furniture store in the nation that year, the second time in 5 years which in itself was a record. He ran the carpet department, and asked him if he knew anyone that could use me. I knew I had no chance of going to work there, as they had not hired a new salesman in 12 years. He called me back in 5 minutes or so, and told me to get right down there to see the manager. I went down and found that they had a man retiring the end of the month, and had just taken vacation time for the rest of the time he would be with them. Said he had heard I was the best furniture salesman in town, and was trying to figure out how to approach me to get me to go to work for them. As he was discussing it with the managers on a group call to the other 3 stores the family owned, in walked my friend. He had only one question, could I start the next morning. I did and my income increased. I was out of a job for a whole half of a day.
My wife was getting in bad health due to rapidly developing smog in the area, so we were going to have to move to a cleaner area of the country. He called me into his office, and told me that (as I already knew), they were building a new store in another small city 50 miles away. He asked me if I would manage it for them, with a salary much better than my commissions were, plus a bonus if we exceeded goals and the bonus could be huge as it was a percentage of the extra income. I had to turn it down, as I told him why I was going to have to move. It was something we both hated for me to have to do.
If you want raises and promotions, you have to demonstrate why you deserve them. I am saying that from the point of view of someone that got the raises and promotions when many did not. I also say it from the point of view when I managed, and I was the one giving the raises. Do the minimum, and you don't deserve a raise, or promotion. You are getting paid, for what you are worth to the company.
This all makes so much more sense, people who can sell, especially selling things that people don't really need for top dollar is a coveted skill that really does not require any certification or carry any liability. Also there are sales jobs everywhere there are people for the most part so that is a whole different situation than some of these engineering threads you post in. When you change jobs in furniture sales you basically walk down the street. When whole industries that employ engineers start to see hard times engineers can be forced into much more dire situations ... like moving to angola.
The barriers to entry for engineering is also WAY higher so its not like going from selling furniture to selling cars, switching disciplines can be a 4-5 year endeavor.
In most cases in order for a culture to have a robust engineering profession there has to be govt support because business just wants finished goods in a store house that they can peddle. NO one does front end R&D or product development unless they are compelled too (or its an eccentric billionaire investing in tech projects but that's rare).
Taxation of corporations in the 40's and 50's are what drove the huge advancements because it was either re-invest in the company or pay 90% in taxes on all profits. That's when you had things like Bell labs etc.
Because I take pride in my work, it reflects on my reputation in my field and, if I ever need to find another job, I would hope it would move me farther to the top of the list of candidates applying.
There is not always any official recognition at a workplace of extra efforts and diligence by an employee. Such a worker will have to internalize the satisfaction gained from doing things better than required. But your own self-estimation is what counts the most, because no one knows you as well as you do. But that doesn't give you any more money, if that's essential to you.
Sometimes, doing extra work or doing it better can produce negative rewards. Fellow employees may resent you for being a "work-breaker", (setting a higher standard that they will have to match). I once was the senior of 4 workers in a segment of a small department of 9 people. I did a lot of extra things and got along well with clients of the company. When they hired a new, ambitious supervisor to regiment us, he immediately recognized me as a threat to him and his position. For the next two years, he never passed-up a chance to make things tough for me or to claim I'd committed some fault, when none had occurred.
Some of our biggest clients wouldn't even talk to him over the phone, or allow him to come to their offices, as they had been offended by him. I or someone else had to communicate with them. The Big-Boss never took any action against him, except finally telling him that he had to co-exist with me. When I eventually gave him my notice, because I was returning full-time to college, he looked like he wanted to break into a victory dance. He double-timed to the HR office to give them his good news about my departure.
Talking years later with the employee I'd trained to take my position, I found that over time, this supervisor had advanced his skill at being an annoying jackass to an art form. When he finally left the job, the employees threw a party (I was invited). But the party wasn't for him, it was a celebration that he was gone. Sadly, there's more to the story. The guy they hired to take his place was twice as bad and there was a 100% turnover in the department within 6 months.
Last edited by Steve McDonald; 08-25-2016 at 08:25 PM..
As a manager, I fond the following to be normal in our corporate environment:
50% of employees did the required work and did it well.
10% of employees did not meet the standards.
20% exceeded expectation.
10% far exceeded expectation.
During any downsizing or layoff the 10% that did not measure up are gone. This is also the reason no one wants to hire the first round of layoffs. Every corporation has about 8% to 10% dead weight at any given time.
Basically I agree with you except for that 50%. Of them there's at least the 10% to 20% doing the bare minimum to avoid being fired. Over the years I've come to the point where I no longer consider those on the bare minimum line to be above it, but go ahead and put them below. They may be doing their job, but only just barely and when you consider the total cost impact, they probably have a larger total negative impact overall than the bottom 10% that don't meet standards. The bottom 10% you have no problem getting rid of. It's that next 10% that are just good enough. The ones who don't get fired that other workers see doing the minimum yet getting the full pay. Their cost is the fact they drag the rest of the office, organization, company down to their level of mediocrity, but get away with it due to the constant refrain of "but it's good enough."
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