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regardless wages should be livable, many people are victims of bad luck and now are not working and cant find work. They are educated adults that earned a upper middle class wage but due to the economy they now are unemployed, over 50 and struggling.
These guys deserve a living wage, we all do......... regardless if you sweep a floor, or build skyscrapers. Work should be rewarded with the ability to live and support a family.
I feel when you get to a certain age the minimum wage should increase. I know that will never happen because employers will just hire the younger crowd and there is enough age discrimination already.
I feel terrible for my friends that are over 50 and thru no fault of their own now cant find work. They all are college educated and had great jobs and earned a great living for years until the economy took a tumble. These are smart guys that saved for the future, but I wonder if they will have a future?? its sad to see............ we all deserve living wages........ all of us!!!
I know. I personally just want something. I don't care if it's living wage as long as it's more than surveys (which is easy since they have to pay you min wage). I just want to get started working and they don't even want to give me that. I don't understand why it has to be so hard to get paid something.
Again, and I have this information from a high school principal... Shop classes were cut because they are too expensive to run, equip, and staff.
Sorry, but running a class with a 1:10 instructor: student ratio. an enormous physical space requirement and constant material replenishments, equipment repair, etc.. is too expensive.
Kids have extra curricular activities - at least many of them do. One thing I have never heard about though (but there may be some/someone out there offering this choice) are classes in some of the basic trades given by individuals/groups/entrepreneurs. Maybe this is an opportunity for innovation in the private sector - using an old 'craft'. I suspect there might be many parents who, if their kids were interested or so inclined, these days might sign their kids up for a class in woodworking/carpentry, metalworking, perhaps even plumbing or electrical, construction, etc. if they were out there.
In the 'olden days', parents themselves often taught the basics of these things and perhaps helped their kids build a soap box racer or a sailboat for the local pond or the like. But, these days not only are too many parents too busy for that, but they themselves don't have the skills or tools already on hand. But, someone who has those things already could perhaps open up their garage or barn for a class or two once or twice a week .. make money on the side .. and help to fill in the gaps that the school system can no longer afford to fill. Just a thought.
Part of the problem is companies became greedy. They figured out they could move their manufacturing operations overseas where people are happy to work for peanuts. Profit margins are the only important things to many companies these days. The hell with integrity, pensions and treating employees well.
I'm glad I'm 61 sometimes and not 31 and trying to survive out there. It is getting harder and harder for young people to find good paying jobs without a degree or two unless you work for a good company or have a specialized occupation. I thank God every day that my husband spent 20 years in the military so at least I have a pension every month which came in handy after he died.
The rents have skyrocketed and I don't know many single people who aren't forced to move back home or have roommates. There was a time in the 60's and 70's where a single person could leave home at 18, go to work and have their own apartment. Not anymore.
I would like to think Trump will change some of this but I won't hold my breath.
It wasn't as much about companies becoming greedy as the increase in global competition that forced companies overseas. Some companies just couldn't compete with foreign companies and their products because the costs for the foreign companies were so low. Couple that with things like unions that force companies to pay more and all of the government regulations and the noose continued to tighten. Companies ran into the risk of going belly up if they didn't make a drastic change. This isn't that difficult to research and gather facts.
I too hope that Trump can mitigate some of that and bring jobs back here. But to do that he is going to have to loosen the noose of government regulations on companies and make it affordable for them to bring their operations back into the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick
I know. I personally just want something. I don't care if it's living wage as long as it's more than surveys (which is easy since they have to pay you min wage). I just want to get started working and they don't even want to give me that. I don't understand why it has to be so hard to get paid something.
That's the first problem. No one is going to give you anything. You have to earn it. Earning it doesn't just mean earning a paycheck once you get on board. You have to provide valuable skills that companies need and are willing to pay for. That is up to you.
I think America's boom period was mostly due to the world rebuilding post WW2. Basically a fluke in history that I don't see repeating. There was enough money to throw around where someone doing a menial task in a factory was paid a middle class wage and pension. Those days are long gone. Americans, especially at the lower end of the job scale will have to accept a lower standard of living. But even that standard of living is luxury compared to some places in the world. Even a $9 an hour Walmart clerk probably has a better life style than a chinese foxconn assembly line worker.
There is still enough money it just goes to the top 15% now instead of the old way.
There has to be some self-reflection added to this as well though. You can't just automatically assume that a 50 year old who stocked grocery shelves their whole life should make $20/hr. That is an unskilled position that was never meant to be a lifelong endeavor. Those positions are temporary positions that are stepping stones to the next job/position. To maintain checks and balances a company has to provide a wage that the market can support. Not a wage that people who never desired or made an effort to advance has to be happy with. It's an unfortunate reality.
As humans we are designed to learn. These types of jobs are meant to be stepping stones to others that we can make a living wage at. Using the grocery store as an example, A bag boy can work their way to a shelf stocker. A shelf stocker can work their way to a cashier. A cashier can work their way into a shift manager. A shift manager can work their way into a district manager. And so on and so forth.
Those who become comfortable staying in an unskilled position won't see the same benefits as those who decide to work their way up the ladder. We are supposed to work our way up so that new people entering the workforce can take those lower paying jobs to gain experience in the workforce. We must remain motivated to succeed and give every effort that we have to advance.
In reality, we can't say "through no fault of their own" because it takes away any accountability that we have for ourselves. There are always decisions to make, and sometimes making the wrong one has dire consequences.
Wages shouldn't increase at a certain age unless the position in which the person of age holds requires a skillset that warrants the position. There is only so much to learn and only so much value that one can provide stocking shelves, sweeping floors, taking orders, etc... If you can hire anyone off the street to perform the job and it doesn't require a specialized skill then that person's value is diluted. One should make every effort to continuously prove their value to the company. This comes through advancement which comes through hard work and experience.
Stores provide goods to consumers. For a consumer to buy a good, it must hold a value that is desirable to us. If another store offers the same or a similar product with what we determine a better value, consumers move to that store and buy those goods. When the goods cease to hold any value to us (think about tape decks, VCRs, etc...) then they are phased out and no longer viable. So companies must continually improve upon the value they offer to consumers to keep us shopping there.
The same goes for people. We provide a service to companies. For that service, they pay us. When our services are no longer valuable to the company, they move on to the next service that provides that value. In order for people to remain valuable we must continually improve ourselves and prove that we bring value to the table.
The free market is great in many ways. In many others it fails the bottom 75% of the population in many ways which is why it needs to be and is regulated. The current problem is that the current market controls are wrong have led to a race to the bottom instead of to the top. Companies have found the stock market rewards them as much for laying off employees as much as they do for actually making money, way more then they reward for long term strength. It's a problem, that the free market can not fix.
You are too fixated on someone else taking care of your retirement...
My 401k hit north of $250k when I am age 30. Without adding more to it, and just letting it compound, I will have $2-3 million. The roth portion will be tax free as well. This translates to offering me more than what my pension will. And yes, I will have a pension as well.
A pension... even if they offered it today, how many people will stick around for 20-30 years at the same company? Look how often people switch jobs these days. Even if you just "stuck" around for vesting period, a pension still doesn't pay out much unless you put in decades.
Lots of jobs pay living wage or more. Maybe you're living on too high of a standard or having too low of a career level?
You know "many" people that retired well, there are many times more that didn't. You can't just point to the successful people and say everyone from that generation is doing just as well.
to your college point, it was free... maybe people who don't get scholarships/grants and don't want to work and save first, just aren't ready for college/IE not college material... they would be better off foregoing college for time being
Yup, I am the person the OP is feeling sorry for, a millennial. Every time a company reaches out to me if the job sounds interesting I take the call. I just got a promotion into a new role at my current company less than a month ago and I have taken 3 calls from recruiters at different companies. I'd much rather have a 401k match that I can take with me than be stuck at a company until I qualify for my pension.
Yup, I am the person the OP is feeling sorry for, a millennial. Every time a company reaches out to me if the job sounds interesting I take the call. I just got a promotion into a new role at my current company less than a month ago and I have taken 3 calls from recruiters at different companies. I'd much rather have a 401k match that I can take with me than be stuck at a company until I qualify for my pension.
Depends the last company I worked for with a match withheld the match until you worked 3 years same as what they used to do with the pension. Many companies have dropped the match since the recession as well.
A lot of people have yet to adapt to the new economy. You really have to have some aptitude in STEM if you want to make a decent buck today.
In the past I mentioned I used to tutor subjects during my time in community college. I had many students burst into tears because they couldn't figure out how to do things like basic algebra no matter how many times we went over the material. People like that just aren't going to be competitive in today's high tech high skill economy. In the past you could get away with being unskilled because there were still jobs such as factories that trained and paid a living wage.
if you're uneducated and unskilled today you have a high chance of either being stuck on the dole or even homelessness.
The free market is great in many ways. In many others it fails the bottom 75% of the population in many ways which is why it needs to be and is regulated. The current problem is that the current market controls are wrong have led to a race to the bottom instead of to the top. Companies have found the stock market rewards them as much for laying off employees as much as they do for actually making money, way more then they reward for long term strength. It's a problem, that the free market can not fix.
I don't see 75% of the population being at the bottom. Have you ever held a position in a company that allows you behind their closed doors to get down to the real issues they discuss when it comes to layoffs, downsizing, etc? I have. I can assure you that while this is a common mindset for people who have worked the lower skilled jobs, it is NOT the discussions that are had.
Companies have to maintain a balance sheet. A business must remain profitable to stay in operation. When something comes along that jeopardizes their future decisions are made. First, we look towards cost savings through material.
Can we negotiate better deals on materials? What if we buy in bulk? Are there cheaper, quality suppliers that we can turn to? ETC.... Those are the first actions taken.
Can we reduce operating times and overhead? Process improvements, cycle time reductions, eliminating unnecessary roles and merging those with other roles, looking for cheaper office supplies, moving to paperless systems, repairing tools instead of replacing them, cutting power to sections of the building when not in use instead of having everything in standby mode, etc..... Anything that might present a cost savings is analyzed.
Can we freeze salaries until the market stabilizes? Do we need to cut any management bonuses or temporarily reduce management salaries? <-- I have willingly accepted both of these in the past along with all of the management in the company to cut costs.
Can we upsell more products/services to our customers? Spent many a waking night figuring out how to pitch more ideas to our customers to increase sales. We've even offered cost reductions if customers agree to buy by volume. This one is risky, but we have had to do it temporarily.
And then we get down to brass tacks.
Once ALL of the things (and then some) above are gone through with a fine toothed comb and we still need to cut costs:
Are there any low margin products/services that we can outsource short term that will reduce our expense and increase profitability? If so, those are investigated.
Are there any low margin products/services that we can outsource permanently that just don't provide enough profit to keep in house?
Who are our top ranked employees?
Who are our bottom ranked employees?
How much value do they provide?
Can we roll an unskilled role into the role of one of our skilled employees and have them manage both?
If we need to lay off, how many people and what will that affect both in terms of products/services/ and the budget?
So you see..... typically choosing to outsource work and lay off people is not the first thing in a company's mind. Far from it. The goal is to grow the company, not to shrink it. But if it must be shrunk and we make it all the way down to laying people off, those who can be laid off and create the least impact to the company (unskilled labor) are cut first and we work from the bottom up. You end up keeping only the essential people to survive on until the market recovers.
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