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Sounds like you need to start automating. Can't beat up on people for being people. Robots can do rote tasks 24/7 with lights out other than for very minor mx down time.
No one is beating them up. But when you hire on, you agree to adhere to the schedule. Coming back late, taking longer breaks, etc... adds up and can severely impact a Production schedule. Manufacturing companies live and die by this schedule.
There are some things that cannot be automated.
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Originally Posted by longneckone
The people which I personally know that do this actually hate the company and the manager. Their productivity sucks and they are very lucky to have the job which they hate.
Very true.
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Originally Posted by Ron61
Turning "A" profit is really not the issue if you are the person responsible,or the business owner. Of course,any profit is preferable to loss,however turning "a" profit is not the same as meeting your stated profit goals. When you have to carefully watch the bottom line,as most businesses do these days,a few minutes here or there where people aren't at their station when the day begins can really start to detract from the profit goal. Especially if this practice becomes the norm.
An assembly line for example that has 500 workers on it cannot absorb a two minute delay in it starting up because you will not be able to get X number of widgets out the door that day. How do you recover 1000 lost minutes of production time and the lost widgets unless you schedule OT? Now there's a drain on profits!
One of the things I liked about my career in the automotive industry was that our associates were taught basic business principles like profit and loss. They understood the implications of down time and lost production on the business,especially their yearly profit sharing check. Which was very,very nice.
And there it is in a nutshell.
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Originally Posted by ChessieMom
Your job does not make you all-knowing about others. I am drained if I cannot get out at lunch to work out. I've been running, walking, or working out at lunch for over 10 years. I sit all day at my job, and spend most of that time very focused mentally. We all (programmers and analysts) value our "get up and go our for a walk" times - and we do it as often as once an hour. It helps us immensely.
I never said it did. I merely stated what works for me. Your mileage may vary.
No one is beating them up. But when you hire on, you agree to adhere to the schedule. Coming back late, taking longer breaks, etc... adds up and can severely impact a Production schedule. Manufacturing companies live and die by this schedule.
There are some things that cannot be automated.
Very true.
And there it is in a nutshell.
I never said it did. I merely stated what works for me. Your mileage may vary.
Lunch going over, people sleeping through alarms, people getting sick is part of being people. Machines don't get sick tired stuck in traffic, wake up late, get side tracked ... I could go on and on.
Someone getting held up in a lunch rush for 20 min is far different than going on a binge drinking for lunch and not coming back to work. The problem is you are speaking of nickel and diming every single min, that will never work with human beings you will be fighting an uphill battle your whole carrer.
You either need to automate those tasks or accept that you work with other people who are not robots.
Yea someone getting smashed every night and coming in 3 hrs late is one thing, berating someone for being 10-20 min late is another.
However I am not a morning person so I would fight you until I was terminated if I had an employer grinding me every min in the morning. I typically just stay later to make up.
Lunch going over, people sleeping through alarms, people getting sick is part of being people. Machines don't get sick tired stuck in traffic, wake up late, get side tracked ... I could go on and on.
Someone getting held up in a lunch rush for 20 min is far different than going on a binge drinking for lunch and not coming back to work. The problem is you are speaking of nickel and diming every single min, that will never work with human beings you will be fighting an uphill battle your whole carrer.
You either need to automate those tasks or accept that you work with other people who are not robots.
Yea someone getting smashed every night and coming in 3 hrs late is one thing, berating someone for being 10-20 min late is another.
However I am not a morning person so I would fight you until I was terminated if I had an employer grinding me every min in the morning. I typically just stay later to make up.
As stated before, in a Manufacturing environment we live and die by a schedule. Most times the schedules are extremely tight because customers have a need that we must fill immediately to support their work. This is not specific to my companies. This is a well known and commonality that ALL manufacturing companies share.
We're not talking about forcing people to perform as robots but instead to be responsible adults that fulfill their end of an agreement to work for the company. Most schedules are calculated at 90-95% full time, meaning there is a 5-10% time gap factored in that accounts for tardiness, absence, vacation time, etc.... This will cover the occasional issue. It will not however, cover everyone or a group of habitual offenders.
There is time built in to allow for the occasional late start due to people coming in late or leaving early, but we are talking about habitual offenders. Those who don't want to be held to a tight schedule need not work in a manufacturing environment. Margins are tight, and the way to maintain them is to maintain or improve efficiency through the company.
In my post that you are referencing, the problem was with people wandering in as they pleased instead of adhering to a schedule. This was an epidemic problem, not a single instance that we could account for. At one point we were able to maintain those times, which is how we knew there was a problem. Suddenly with some new hires, we started having issues.
10-20 minutes late on a frequent basis is a problem. A HUGE problem. I don't care if you're a morning person. If the position is scheduled for 8am-5pm you are expected to begin work at 8am. Not to be rolling in the parking lot only to come in and make coffee, read emails, etc... while you wake up before you decide to begin work.
Staying late isn't always an option either, because the people who need to complete the next process after you are done may not be there to do the work since they went home on time. Others may depend on you to complete your tasks on time so that they can complete theirs.
So they either go home on time and start on the work you completed tomorrow (and delay the schedule) or stay late to complete their task (thus causing them to have to work over time and creating an added cost to the job).
As stated before, in a Manufacturing environment we live and die by a schedule. Most times the schedules are extremely tight because customers have a need that we must fill immediately to support their work. This is not specific to my companies. This is a well known and commonality that ALL manufacturing companies share.
We're not talking about forcing people to perform as robots but instead to be responsible adults that fulfill their end of an agreement to work for the company. Most schedules are calculated at 90-95% full time, meaning there is a 5-10% time gap factored in that accounts for tardiness, absence, vacation time, etc.... This will cover the occasional issue. It will not however, cover everyone or a group of habitual offenders.
There is time built in to allow for the occasional late start due to people coming in late or leaving early, but we are talking about habitual offenders. Those who don't want to be held to a tight schedule need not work in a manufacturing environment. Margins are tight, and the way to maintain them is to maintain or improve efficiency through the company.
In my post that you are referencing, the problem was with people wandering in as they pleased instead of adhering to a schedule. This was an epidemic problem, not a single instance that we could account for. At one point we were able to maintain those times, which is how we knew there was a problem. Suddenly with some new hires, we started having issues.
10-20 minutes late on a frequent basis is a problem. A HUGE problem. I don't care if you're a morning person. If the position is scheduled for 8am-5pm you are expected to begin work at 8am. Not to be rolling in the parking lot only to come in and make coffee, read emails, etc... while you wake up before you decide to begin work.
Staying late isn't always an option either, because the people who need to complete the next process after you are done may not be there to do the work since they went home on time. Others may depend on you to complete your tasks on time so that they can complete theirs.
So they either go home on time and start on the work you completed tomorrow (and delay the schedule) or stay late to complete their task (thus causing them to have to work over time and creating an added cost to the job).
You have to consider the big picture.
I am sorry to say that as the old generations retire out the new generations are not going to adher to tight schedules. I personally feel there is a major paradigm shift happening between the generations and if companies don't account for it in their numbers OR automate they will fail.
If you cant allow people to make up the time on the back end without incurring OT then these issues, I predict, will get worse. I personally believe the proliferation of flex schedules is not because management wants too but because the work force is compelling it and if a manager wants to avoid high turn over and possibly business failure then they adapt. If management had their way we would have 10 year olds working in mines and people working 80 hr work weeks.
I mean if you can get a slave to work until he dies and it makes your spread sheet look good, why not ...
I personally agree with the new generations so long as the OT issues can be worked out. Sometimes I get in at 10am and then I just work over or I don't bill it, sometimes I leave on a nice warm sunny day to engage in certain hobbies and I just don't bill it.
Maybe that's because I work with high speed people though and I imagine my tune would change if someone came in looking like a bum with an attitude who was an idiot AND late on top of that.
I am sorry to say that as the old generations retire out the new generations are not going to adher to tight schedules. I personally feel there is a major paradigm shift happening between the generations and if companies don't account for it in their numbers OR automate they will fail.
If you cant allow people to make up the time on the back end without incurring OT then these issues, I predict, will get worse. I personally believe the proliferation of flex schedules is not because management wants too but because the work force is compelling it and if a manager wants to avoid high turn over and possibly business failure then they adapt. If management had their way we would have 10 year olds working in mines and people working 80 hr work weeks.
I mean if you can get a slave to work until he dies and it makes your spread sheet look good, why not ...
I personally agree with the new generations so long as the OT issues can be worked out. Sometimes I get in at 10am and then I just work over or I don't bill it, sometimes I leave on a nice warm sunny day to engage in certain hobbies and I just don't bill it.
Maybe that's because I work with high speed people though and I imagine my tune would change if someone came in looking like a bum with an attitude who was an idiot AND late on top of that.
When management had it's way in this country we had ten year olds working in mines and eighty hour weeks. Those were the days of laissez-faire economics in this country...otherwise known to some as "the good ol'days" It took government intervention to stop it. Nothing else would have. Remember, it took a bloody war to stop slavery in this country. And global corporations still practice and tolerate those conditions in countries where you don't have strong governments running interference on them. They would do it again here if they could.
Last edited by robertbrianbush; 01-12-2017 at 09:48 PM..
I am sorry to say that as the old generations retire out the new generations are not going to adher to tight schedules. I personally feel there is a major paradigm shift happening between the generations and if companies don't account for it in their numbers OR automate they will fail.
No... they won't. The new snowflakes who want a company to cater to them will either get in line, or find themselves unemployable. Manufacturing companies are not going to change their processes because a couple of people don't like adhering to schedules. You work for the company, not the other way around.
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Originally Posted by pittsflyer
If you cant allow people to make up the time on the back end without incurring OT then these issues, I predict, will get worse. I personally believe the proliferation of flex schedules is not because management wants too but because the work force is compelling it and if a manager wants to avoid high turn over and possibly business failure then they adapt. If management had their way we would have 10 year olds working in mines and people working 80 hr work weeks.
It is obvious that you have never worked in this type of environment. There are certain positions that require work to be performed at a specific time. "Making it up on the back end" isn't an option because the window in which the work had to be performed has closed. We aren't talking submitting a report within a week, but completing a task within hours. These are two totally different roles with two totally different requirements.
When you hire on with a company, they tell you what days they need you to work, and the hours of operation. When you accept the position, you are agreeing to perform your job between those hours. Some companies have a flexible schedule (as in my role now) where the tasks have deadlines. As long as you can meet the deadlines, you control when it gets done to a point. If you are an assembly worker on a production line, the tasks have immediate deadlines and cannot be flexed. None of that is hidden from you when you hire on, so attempting to modify your schedule after the fact is frowned upon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer
I mean if you can get a slave to work until he dies and it makes your spread sheet look good, why not ...
I personally agree with the new generations so long as the OT issues can be worked out. Sometimes I get in at 10am and then I just work over or I don't bill it, sometimes I leave on a nice warm sunny day to engage in certain hobbies and I just don't bill it.
Maybe that's because I work with high speed people though and I imagine my tune would change if someone came in looking like a bum with an attitude who was an idiot AND late on top of that.
We should all understand responsibility to our employers. When we are hired on, we are hired on to do the work and meet their deadlines. We do not hire on with the understanding that we can complete tasks as our schedule permits. Don't forget that the company is paying us to perform a job. The agreement is that we provide a service, and they provide monetary compensation.
What would you say to a company that decides to short your paycheck for a week or two and then catch it up later? You'd be outraged and complain that this is unfair. If you can decide your schedule, why can't they decide when to pay you? What's the difference?
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. Their productivity sucks and they are very lucky to have the job which they hate.
