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You are the problem and do not realize it. If you want a manager to get behind you to help you get to the job you are after, you first have to prove you are a valuable enough employee that the manager is willing to stick their neck out to help you get the job you want.
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Originally Posted by Left-handed
I agree with you on these points. But I point back to the "you have to have a supportive manager" to get there argument.
I asked my former manager at my last job for feedback about moving into the type of role I wanted, and he grew angry and frustrated with me. Why? Because that's not what he wanted for me.
You have been hired to do a certain job, but you want something different, that is not in the companies/managers plans. The company and your manager want you to do the job you have been hired to do, and are not looking for someone to do another job in the company. You want a new job created just to fit your personal long term desired, and you frustrate your managers when you don't want to do a certain job but want something all together different. Of course they get angry and frustrated with you. They want you to do the job you are hired for.
It's the same with my current director, whom I report to. He does not care about my career progress, he's only cared about himself, and now he's leaving after just over 1.5 years with our group.
Again the managers want you to do the job you were hired to do. They need someone that is working for them that is doing their job, not someone that is unhappy with that job and keeps pushing for that manager to help you get a different job they don't care if it gets filled or not. They need someone that does the job they need done. Simple as that. The reason he may be leaving, is he is tired of having a bunch of people like you he has to fight with to get the job done, and are pushing him to get them a different job all the time.
If I had a supportive manager pushing for my advancement, then I'd stick around long term. But by and large, I have never had a supportive manager pushing for my advancement. They've only cared about themselves and their own job satisfaction, and usually take care of themselves first and foremost. That's why my former manager at the telecom left after the merger, it's why my manager at my last job grew angry that I wanted to diverge from his plans for me, and it's why my current director is jumping ship from this dysfunctional organization.
The managers are responsible to get the jobs done in their department. Of course they managers are going to get angry with you, as you are only trying to use them to get you your dream job. They get tired of someone that is not interested in doing the job they are hired for, and pushes them to get them a dream job that may not even exist with the company. You are considered a problem employee.
You find me a supportive manager who pushes for my career success and advancement, then I am committed to the long term goals. Especially now that it's not only about earning more.
Not going to happen. You have a goal that is of no interest to your managers. You are just there, hoping to find a manager that is more interested in helping you get your dream job, than you are in doing your job. The manager are looking for someone to do the job they need you for, not from day one wanting that manager to support your dreams. If you want them to push you for your dream job, you have to put out on your job to the point they want to reward you, helping you get a better job. From everything you have said, you are not doing that. You only want the reward, not doing the job to deserve it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed
2-3 years generally at each job. One job (for 8 months) skews the average a bit.
2-3 years is a lot of time spent in a single role. Generally speaking, your first year is learning the role, and the second year is demonstrating your ability to do the role and improve upon it. Anything beyond that is just garbage time and collecting a paycheck.
Right there you are proving to your managers, you are not worth getting behind to help you get your dream job. You are proving you are not dependable, and a company man. With your attitude, no manager is going to get behind you to help you get your dream job, which may not even exist with your employer, and no one is going to push to get such a job created for you. They are not going to risk their reputation to back someone like you.
Your managers consider you are a flake. I spent most of my career in management, in the corporate world I worked up with an old and respected company to the position of division sales manager, with the division covering the western half of the nation. I can tell you, that what I am saying is experience in management seeing people like you.
Manager get behind an employee to help them further their career, because the employee has demonstrated to the manager that they are 1: Dependable/Reliable, someone that goes beyond just doing the minimum. 2: A valuable asset to the company, and worthy of getting promoted. 3: With the company for the long haul, not a job hopper. 4: Someone that will make your manager's stock go up with the company, by getting behind someone that is outstanding, and helps that person move up the ladder.
From your statements on this thread, you show you are not this person. You try to push managers to get you your dream job, and this is a big NO-NO. You never stick around long enough, to prove that the company is improved due to someone getting promoted and placed in charge of a certain project.
Last edited by oldtrader; 02-16-2018 at 11:48 AM..
You're a job hopper who runs instead of sticking around to help solve organizational problems. You're adding to the exact thing you're complaining about.
You're not wrong. But in my defense, I am usually leaving after my management or directorship has already abandoned ship. I'm not in a key decision making role like these people. Their departures have far greater impacts than mine, so if you wanna blame someone.... I usually leave after they have abandoned ship because I feel like my career trajectory at the current work place has been shifted in a contradictory direction, derailed, or put on hold.
At the end of the day, everyone needs to look out for themselves, and my job hopping (hate it or love it) has been about looking out for myself.
You are the problem and do not realize it. If you want a manager to get behind you to help you get to the job you are after, you first have to prove you are a valuable enough employee that the manager is willing to stick their neck out to help you get the job you want.
Manager get behind an employee to help them further their career, because the employee has demonstrated to the manager that they are 1: Dependable/Reliable, someone that goes beyond just doing the minimum. 2: A valuable asset to the company, and worthy of getting promoted. 3: With the company for the long haul, not a job hopper.
From your statements on this thread, you show you are not this person. You try to push managers to get you your dream job, and this is a big NO-NO.
Managers push people that do a great job and go above and beyond what a normal person would, and show the manager they are a great asset to the company. Managers push people up the ladder, who show they are a company man/woman, who goes beyond what is expected of them. Managers push people up the ladder, that will do a great job, and make points for the manager by being a great asset to the company at their new job.
I did not create the problem. I respond to the problem. When I get hired in for a specific job and that changes as a result of a re-org, merger, or management change, that is not my fault. THEY screwed it up. I just respond to it.
Also, for your information, I complete many projects successfully. And I never get recognition for them because A) management doesn't know or care, and B) management changes so often that they cannot track what it is that I do or have done. You blame the employees for issues that are far out of their control. If you want a culprit to point fingers at and blame, look at the management of the organization. People don't leave jobs, they leave managers.
Last edited by Left-handed; 02-16-2018 at 12:01 PM..
so many people on here seem to think chasing money is the sole reason for working, and never seem to find somewhere they are happy being for long term
Well, when you need to work to keep a roof over your head, and to not become a societal pariah (homeless), and you live in a country with almost no safety net (USA), I would say that money is at the very least the main reason for working.
I know this probably sounds like a personal vent, and maybe it is. But it's something that continues to bother me when I read comments berating "job hopping" without considering what actually goes into a decision to hop jobs.
IMO,
Regardless of industry it's fairly difficult to get a good job. What a "good job" is, is subjective but the types of jobs that will provide stability (buyouts have happened where I worked and there was instability like you note).
Outsourcing.
Sub-par managers. IMO, most managers (meaning more than 50%) are not very good managers. In thinking, organizational skills and communication skills. Social skills, also.
I don't think the term "job hopping" is applicable to many people who change jobs more frequently than others.
Things are dynamic and things are always changing.
so many people on here seem to think chasing money is the sole reason for working, and never seem to find somewhere they are happy being for long term
I agree with you.
But if you're happy at a minimum wage job, everyone thinks you're a failure because you're not making any money. How many times on this forum has someone been declared a loser because all they make is minimum wage? I've known waitresses that love their work and some of them graduated from college. But people treat them like they're two rungs under a collapsed ladder because they're not white collar workers with a big house and a fancy car.
I know this probably sounds like a personal vent, and maybe it is. But it's something that continues to bother me when I read comments berating "job hopping" without considering what actually goes into a decision to hop jobs. It's like these people have no concept that many work environments and managers suck, and that they should count themselves lucky and be considerate to those who are trying to improve their situations. As opposed to telling them that they are only ruining their career prospects.
Because at one time the long term employment was something every employer and employee wanted. Lots of companies today simply look at the bottom line. If profits aren’t what they want they restructure which means layoffs.
For the most part job hopping like crazy can be and sometimes is detrimental to ones career. I did the job hopping early in my career and I realized I started to look like a mercenary. Eventually 8 wen5 t9 work for myself and after that fir a guy. I stayed there for 10 years. When I went to other job interviews as the company I was with was failing, people actually said “wow you were there for 10 years that’s wonderful. Why are you leaving” I stated the company was basically closing down its branches and downsizing to concentrate on solar power jobs. I don’t want to do solar power.
But having a job hopping resume can look as if you are willing to leave at the drop of a hat.
There wouldn’t be job hopping if souleless , clueless sociopaths with little to no business knowledge weren’t running companies today. People job hop until they can find a company which values their employees and invests in their growth. (Which is rare to find these days of course). People job because they know in most workplaces they will not be valued so they grab any experience they can and take off. And who can blame them?
In my first job out of college, I worked for a large telecom. However, I worked directly for the vendor of the large telecom.
But okay.
You didn't work at the real telcom. You still got a title and $4K raise...then left.
Then you got "burnt out" at the one you liked.
I worked at the REAL telcom my whole life. Countless opportunities and advancement.
Making $88,000 in 1987.
LOL, clue:
Quote:
My bad, I must have fat fingered a number when I was calculating the amount of time I spend in the office. 2080/yr is more accurate based upon a 40 hr work week.
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