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And that, right there, is the problem. Yes, a lot of people work hard. They expend a lot of effort and energy. But that doesn't equate to useful results, or the guy who digs swimming pools in Key West would be the richest dude in the world.
Opportunity comes to those who work smart, who carefully budget their output to the most productive ends. It's a creatable outcome, not the result of fortune or favor. Sure, some people are born into a position that lets this come a lot easier to them than others, but anyone can choose to maximize the value of their labor, as opposed to simply trying to output more and more... there's only so hard that anyone can work, but there is no limit to how smart you can work.
I don't want the assumption to be that because I typed "I work hard" in a previous post, that I also don't work smart. They aren't mutually exclusive. 95% of the work I inherited, I have automated with functional dynamic reports, dashboards, and graphs. I pull raw data, plug it in, and poof!
Last edited by Left-handed; 03-20-2018 at 11:00 AM..
You're welcome, and not to be a jerk, but my advice doesn't mean I agree with your premises. I don't believe there's a reliable, linear relationship like the one you described.
The problem with discussions like this is one of bias. We know where we are in our careers, but we connect the dots in our path to getting there as if they were planned out and intentional. It's like doing a maze backward, after you already made the mistakes going forward now suddenly you look like a genius doing it backward with zero mistakes.
At least you acknowledge that. You have, in the past, listened to me before casting judgement and accusing me of doing this or not doing that without listening and following up for more information. But nobody wants to listen, they all want to demonstrate how right they are. Others here try to slap a one size fits all bandage on the problem, like if you just follow their advice and shut up, it will fix everything. Clearly, that is not working out, as I have tried just about everything anyone has told me that I should do.
There is a lot of circumstance, luck, support, and right timing involved, but people don't want to believe that because it takes away from the narrative that they did it all on their own merits and out performed everyone else. English Ivy summed it up quite well in his/her earlier post.
At least you acknowledge that. You have, in the past, listened to me before casting judgement and accusing me of doing this or not doing that without listening and following up for more information. But nobody wants to listen, they all want to demonstrate how right they are. Others here try to slap a one size fits all bandage on the problem, like if you just follow their advice and shut up, it will fix everything. Clearly, that is not working out, as I have tried just about everything anyone has told me that I should do.
There is a lot of circumstance, luck, support, and right timing involved, but people don't want to believe that because it takes away from the narrative that they did it all on their own merits and out performed everyone else. English Ivy summed it up quite well in his/her earlier post.
Just don't generalize your one experience and one company. I see in your writing clues that indicate a strongly held set of beliefs that would tend to close your down to other possibilities.
Just don't generalize your one experience and one company. I see in your writing clues that indicate a strongly held set of beliefs that would tend to close your down to other possibilities.
Fair enough on the first sentence. Not sure I understand the second sentence.
As for the first sentence, you can say the same to anyone who is trying to make the case that if you do X, Y, and Z, like they have, at whatever company they worked at, then you will be successful, too! If you aren't successful, then you aren't doing those things we told you to do. That's a logical fallacy. There are a lot of reasons why someone my not reach a certain goal with a particular organization.
If the organization is that dysfunctional then the alternative is another job or geographic move. I moved six times for my career, sometimes going backward to open other doors. Where I am now, I applied and was rejected for 21 years before getting on the door. 21 years. During that time I didn't wait around. I moved five times to different states and multiple job changes building my resume.
So what is the job you want? What is you plan to get there? How many job changes and downgrades and moves are you willing to make? How many schools and training are you willing to attend? How many years are you willing to keep your eyes on the goal?
If the organization is that dysfunctional then the alternative is another job or geographic move. I moved six times for my career, sometimes going backward to open other doors. Where I am now, I applied and was rejected for 21 years before getting on the door. 21 years. During that time I didn't wait around. I moved five times to different states and multiple job changes building my resume.
So what is the job you want? What is you plan to get there? How many job changes and downgrades and moves are you willing to make? How many schools and training are you willing to attend? How many years are you willing to keep your eyes on the goal?
My fiance and I discussed last night the very strong possibility that I may need to expand my career search outside of the state. While it's not exactly what we want, it may be in our cards.
The job / career track I want: BI/data analytics/ultimately perhaps data science
Plan to get there: taking a variety of online courses now to brush up on the skills that I need: Tableau, SQL, R, Python, advanced Statistical analysis, MS in Applied Stats or other Business Analytics programs
How many job changes: I suppose as many as necessary
Schools/training: As much as is necessary, as long as it is cost effective
How many years: I'm 32, so I figure I have at least another 40 years or so of work, if not longer (since we are living and working longer); however long it takes.
Problem is, I have no idea how to get there. I feel like I'm doing "all the right things". However, I'm struggling in my current job search because of lack of direction, support, and lack of ample experience in a lot of the areas I'm looking to get into. It seems that from the job descriptions I'm reading, there is a massive gap in where I'm coming from in my current role and where I want to go in my next role. And we're not talking about a $30k+ salary jump here. These are for positions that start at just a little north of where I'm at now in salary. It seems that in the last few years, analyst jobs have essentially turned into DBA jobs with some data analytics involved.
Bottom line is that I'm doing what I can, but I will do more if needed. If someone had a playbook, or offered advice that I haven't already employed, I am all for using it. It's just that no matter who I talk to, nothing unique is offered. Usually, I've already tried it.
Last edited by Left-handed; 03-20-2018 at 03:57 PM..
My fiance and I discussed last night the very strong possibility that I may need to expand my career search outside of the state. While it's not exactly what we want, it may be in our cards.
The job / career track I want: BI/data analytics/ultimately perhaps data science
Plan to get there: taking a variety of online courses now to brush up on the skills that I need: Tableau, SQL, R, Python, advanced Statistical analysis, MS in Applied Stats or other Business Analytics programs
How many job changes: I suppose as many as necessary
Schools/training: As much as is necessary, as long as it is cost effective
How many years: I'm 32, so I figure I have at least another 40 years or so of work, if not longer (since we are living and working longer); however long it takes.
Problem is, I have no idea how to get there. I feel like I'm doing "all the right things". However, I'm struggling in my current job search because of lack of direction, support, and lack of ample experience in a lot of the areas I'm looking to get into. It seems that from the job descriptions I'm reading, there is a massive gap in where I'm coming from in my current role and where I want to go in my next role. And we're not talking about a $30k+ salary jump here. These are for positions that start at just a little north of where I'm at now in salary. It seems that in the last few years, analyst jobs have essentially turned into DBA jobs with some data analytics involved.
Bottom line is that I'm doing what I can, but I will do more if needed. If someone had a playbook, or offered advice that I haven't already employed, I am all for using it. It's just that no matter who I talk to, nothing unique is offered. Usually, I've already tried it.
Here are some ideas:
1) Networking. Do you know anyone who has gone from where you're at in your career, to where you want to be? Do you know anyone who knows anyone? Ask how they did it. Ask if the applicable company is hiring, and whether they can put in a good word for you, or at least get you in touch with the person you'd be working under so you can send a friendly email. Get active on LinkedIn. Put what you're looking for in your next job in your profile. This will also help broaden your options if/when you change geographic locations. Recruiters may even start contacting you. Look for BI groups on Meetup you can join to meet people.
2) Research smaller, but quickly growing companies in locations you and fiancee find acceptable to live. Glassdoor is great for this. Look for companies that the reviews mention being a good place to grow and get that experience in areas you're looking to get into.
3) Apply like crazy.
4) Be patient. Don't give up. As you said - you're 32, and have another 40 or so years of working to go.
I know the problem you mentioned in the OP was moving up within a company - not with getting hired elsewhere as a means for moving up. You're likely already doing all the above things. But, if it's worked for you in the past, why not use it as your strength?
Also, anecdotally (so take it with a grain of salt), this industry seems to value experience over a bunch of cert's with little experience.
So...what are your thoughts on giving others that same opportunities you had? For or against?
I was never a manager and never wanted to be. In each job I had, I built a small more or less independant practice of my own doing what I wanted. As long as I brought in enough contract money, I was generally left alone to do my thing.
...what is your philosophy on giving others that same opportunity?
So...what are your thoughts on giving others that same opportunities you had? For or against?
In the military (which was my original background), although the stereotype is sergeants barking orders to minions, there is a rich tradition of helping each other, to include mentoring and training. I am very much for giving people a hand, help, advice, training. My experience outside of the military is that these efforts are sometimes not heeded or appreciated.
However, I just saw what you were really asking (about a data analytics career). I went to Indeed,com and searched for "data analytics trainee," and came up with a trainee opportunity at Sony Pictures Entertainment:
Trainee, Digital Research & Analytics
OVERVIEW:
The Sony Pictures Television (SPT) Research team is responsible for providing consumer insight, data analysis and strategic support for SPT businesses.
RESPONSIBILITIES:
Aggregating global data reports from sources such as Nielsen, comScore and Adobe Analytics to create consistent and useful performance tracking and trend analysis.
Coordinating updates and cleanliness of internal databases, including mapping performance to title metadata and TV Schedules
Helping design and execute new efficient processes for the organization and distribution of performance data throughout SPT
QUALIFICATIONS:
Strong analytical and problem solving skills as well as high intellectual curiosity
Must have strong interest in Media business and emerging technologies.
Adaptability, flexibility and learning new systems / databases
Ability to use and develop complex spreadsheets in Microsoft Excel.
Experience with statistical programs (R, SPSS) and/or visualization software (Tableau) is a plus.
Exceptional written and oral communication skills and attention to detail.
Must be able to work 40 hours/week
You need to search for entry level positions where they expect to train you!
How many years: I'm 32, so I figure I have at least another 40 years or so of work, if not longer (since we are living and working longer); however long it takes.
First, before you complain, I acknowledge that there is an element of luck and opportunity involved in promotions. No doubt. If you read back through my posts I advocate for maximizing that opportunity, not that promotions are a given.
That being said, your age may have something to do with this. At 32 you are still relatively new to the workforce, and probably haven't warranted many promotions. I believe you have also said that you have job hopped a bit (no judgment implied on my part) in order to gain more money.
As I see it, if you graduated from college at 21 like many people, and you have changed jobs a few time, like many people, you have probably never held a position for more than 3-4 years.
How much promotional opportunity do you really expect? The first year is typically a learning year at any position, your manager assesses you, you learn the job and company culture. The second year you really start producing, your manager decides whether or not to promote you. This may require waiting for an opening for you to fill, or finding the budget to support a raise. Either way, that can take time. The third year you might see a promotion, maybe the 4th year, depending on vacancies and budget. However, by this time you have already moved on.
Are my thoughts on your employment patterns at all accurate?
When I was 32, I had held positions at 4 different companies, and was just opening a business of my own. I had received only one true promotion in that time, plus a couple of very minor bumps, such as being named a shift lead. When I was your age (sorry, I know I sound like an old codger), I would have agreed with you that changing jobs was the only viable way to advance. That was largely true, and still is.
I know it seems that you have been working for a long time, but the reality is that there are many people out there with more experience. As you gain experience and specialization the rate of career progression will most likely accelerate. But too much job hopping, depending on industry, can also be detrimental.
There simply isn't a universally correct answer.
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