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First, these are top schools. Wharton, Duke and U of Chicago are the Ivy Leagues of MBA schools.
What's your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell
Second, MBA salaries are not going up across the board, only top schools.
False.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsell
Third, you know about the 'insiders club' about top schools. Not about smarts, working hard, or getting skills - it is all about knowing the right people.
False.
While in grad school, I took classes/seminars from & studied under, for example,
George Stigler, Nobel Prize in Economics 1982
Merton Miller, Nobel Prize in Economics 1990
Ronald Coase, Nobel Prize in Economics 1991
Gary Becker, Nobel Prize in Economics 1992
Robert Fogel, Nobel Prize in Economics 1993
Robert Lucas, Nobel Prize in Economics 1995
Myron Scholes, Nobel Prize in Economics 1997
James Heckman, Nobel Prize in Economics 2000
Gene Fama, Nobel Prize in Economics 2013.
It is all about intelligence, working very hard, learning, and acquiring skills - plus having a positive attitude. No work experience required. No "insiders club."
Last edited by RationalExpectations; 11-19-2021 at 09:24 AM..
If the cost of living increased ~6% then a 3-4% salary increase means your purchasing power decreased meaning that not only are MBA salaries not soaring but they're barely keeping up.
Many items went up much higher than 6% like cars and real estate.
And many items declined in price, such as a seasons pass at Vail Resorts.
Economists of all flavors agree that the reported inflation numbers OVERSTATE true inflation.
There's always been a controversy over which measure of inflation is best: the CPI-U, the CPI-W, the GDP deflator, the chain-weighted CPI, or even the trendy personal-consumption expenditures index—each of which typically shows an inflation number within 0.3 percentage point of the others.
The overstatement of the CPI compared to the true inflation rate has been studied for at least 50 years. Over 20 years ago the BLS attempted to reduce the overstatement of inflation by introducing a quality adjustment called a "Hedonic Adjustment." The current controversy is that the way BLS implemented the Hedonic Adjustment is itself flawed.
For example, the first operational cellphones were introduced in 1983 at an inflation-adjusted price of well over $10,000 in today's dollars. They were bulky, heavy, and very low quality products. Today, you can purchase a tracfone at Walmart for $29 and it is a much, much, much better product. Does the CPI or its alternatives track this steep decline in prices from over $10,000 to $29? Of course not. The BLS didn't include a cell phone into its market basket of goods until 1998, long after that $10,0000 1983 phone had declined down the price curve to be cheap.
Hence the upward bias in the statistic. CPI overstates true inflation.
The CPI tends to overstate true inflation because of the following biases:
Substitution bias: When the price of a product in the consumer basket increases substantially, consumers tend to substitute lower-priced alternatives. Thus, since the CPI is a fixed-weight price index, it would not accurately predict the impact of the price increase on the consumer’s budget.
Quality bias: Over time, technological advances increase the life and usefulness of products, but the CPI does not reflect such improvements.
New Product Bias: New products are not introduced into the index until they become commonplace, so the dramatic price decreases often associated with new technology products are not reflected in the index.
Channel bias: the consumer shift to new outlets such as wholesale clubs and online retailers is not well-represented by the CPI. Therefore, it tends to overstate inflation due to an adjustment for channel.
I'm referring to paying $100k+ for an MBA and being in a lower paying IC role, not what I feel about individual contributors or that salary range.
Most newly minted MBAs start out as ICs, then, because of superior performance, rise up to more senior roles where they contribute even more value to society and earn more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modest
I have been and would be perfectly happy with $60k-$80k/yr salary and an IC role.
To each their own. Personally, I always wanted to create more value for society. I always had ambition. But that's just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modest
Would you be comfortable paying $130k for a degree and making $70k/yr as a mid-level analyst for the rest of your career?
Few among us would make such an investment if we didn't aspire to add much more value to society and hence earn far more.
Most newly minted MBAs start out as ICs, then, because of superior performance, rise up to more senior roles where they contribute even more value to society and earn more.
To each their own. Personally, I always wanted to create more value for society. I always had ambition. But that's just me.
Few among us would make such an investment if we didn't aspire to add much more value to society and hence earn far more.
Adding value to the company doesn't necessarily mean adding value to society. A lot of non-MBAs add tremendous value to society by doing dirty work that doesn't pay a whole lot, but helps a lot of people nonetheless.
Good for you for having high ambition to be important. Hope to see you one day up their amongst the Musks, Gates, and Bezoses of the world (all non-MBAs btw). People can be highly ambitious in other ways. I was the first in my family to go to college, graduated from an elite university, moved across country with nothing, and established a life for myself and my now-family. I'm perfectly content with where my ambitions led me. I'm also perfectly content for having time to spend with my family and do leisurely things that bring me happiness.
These top-tier business schools have a very "select" candidate pool so the inputs and outputs are misleading.
I'd say it is more representative of elite schools. I don't think that is misleading. After all, the article is not about people who go to Mississippi Valley State University for an MBA.
Adding value to the company doesn't necessarily mean adding value to society.
I don't disagree. But most add more value to society and as a result earn more money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modest
A lot of non-MBAs add tremendous value to society.
I don't disagree at all. In fact, most value-add to society doesn't come from MBAs.
Here's one simple example: well over a decade ago, while our daughter was in high school, a classmate worked part time at Facebook. He's a bright kid, and was set to matriculate as freshman at Harvard - except Facebook made him a preemptive offer go work for them full-time after high school rather than to go off to Harvard. They offered him $125K - which is pretty amazing considering he was 17 years old at the time. He's 30 now and still works at FB and owns a home in Palo Alto. https://www.zillow.com/palo-alto-ca/home-values/
I don't disagree. But most add more value to society and as a result earn more money.
I don't disagree at all. In fact, most value-add to society doesn't come from MBAs.
Here's one simple example: well over a decade ago, while our daughter was in high school, a classmate worked part time at Facebook. He's a bright kid, and was set to matriculate as freshman at Harvard - except Facebook made him a preemptive offer go work for them full-time after high school rather than to go off to Harvard. They offered him $125K - which is pretty amazing considering he was 17 years old at the time. He's 30 now and still works at FB and owns a home in Palo Alto. https://www.zillow.com/palo-alto-ca/home-values/
Out of the top-10 richest on Forbes' list, none of them have MBAs. What they did have was an incredibly valuable idea.
Good for you for having high ambition to be important. Hope to see you one day up their amongst the Musks, Gates, and Bezoses of the world (all non-MBAs btw). People can be highly ambitious in other ways. I was the first in my family to go to college, graduated from an elite university, moved across country with nothing, and established a life for myself and my now-family. I'm perfectly content with where my ambitions led me. I'm also perfectly content for having time to spend with my family and do leisurely things that bring me happiness.
Sounds successful to me.
I'm also from humble beginnings. Like so many men of his generation, my father dropped out of high school, lied about his age, and joined the Navy the day after Pearl Harbor. Indeed, he was on a US Navy Destroyer in the Pacific that was hit by a Kamikaze while he was onboard, killing many sailors.
Over 5 decades ago, my dad died of a heart attack quite unexpectedly, leaving behind a widow ill-equipped to be a head of household, my younger mentally retarded sister, my older autistic brother, and me -- a pre-teen. And a pile of debt with no assets to speak of.
Mom was unsophisticated -- she grew up on a rural ranch and had been educated in the proverbial One Room School House. Indeed, it was far enough away from the ranch that her step-father drove her to the school on Sunday, and mom stayed with the lone teacher in the attached Teacherage, picking her up on Friday afternoon -- and by "drive" I mean horse & buggy. No, they were not Amish; they were poor and didn't have a car; the ranch had neither running water nor electricity.
We survived. I figured out how to make some money as a then-unskilled pre-teen. I learned to hustle. Nothing illegal, but anything an unskilled kid could do (wash & disinfect trash cans in the neighborhood, clean out garages, clean up dog poop, etc.) I gave the money to mom, and she made me put 25% into a passbook savings account at a local S&L.
We struggled financially - when dad died, mom went back to work after being a housewife for nearly 2 decades, bringing home a modest paycheck. My brother had an especially rough time, as autistics frequently do not deal well with change. Mom moved us to the proverbial "wrong side of the railroad tracks" into what could charitably be called a slum, because that's what we could afford. We were glad we had a roof over our heads, as we knew some people who did not. The high school I attended was among the worst in the state; my graduating class had 660, and 12 of us went to college. I remember the police coming through on horseback several times/year to break up gang or race fights. I remember looking at the wrong end of a handgun in school. Fortunately, no one was shot - at least, not on campus. As the bespectacled skinny nerd, I had the snot beat out of me every now and then just for fun.
Mom insisted I go to college. She also insisted I figure out how to pay for it. For example, I bought a used push lawnmower at a yard sale, hustled for customers near the college, and made money mowing lawns (no weeding or planting; that takes time). I called myself the "Lawn Ranger." Over time, I hired first one and then several high school kids to do the actual work. By the time I graduated, I had a trailer with 4 ugly, used but working gas lawnmowers & and a bunch of high school teenagers in rotation based on their availability (not quite day laborers). I'd get new customers, and then do my best to calculate the optimal driving route for the circuit. Only later did I learn this was the classic "Traveling Salesman Problem" in mathematics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel...lesman_problem. I'd sometimes “fire” existing customers because they were no longer on an optimal driving route. I'd pick up the teenagers, deliver them & lawnmowers to customers, circle around and pick them up, and go on to the next set, etc. Other college kids were preparing for winter formals or a fancy spring break; I towed a trailer with old lawnmowers and lawn clippings. When I graduated, I sold the "business" to a rising sophomore who thought he could run it. I found out later it didn't last a year under his management. He wasn’t “hungry” enough, I guess.
I rose to senior roles at some name brand tech companies and have had a direct hand in the creation of technologies that, most likely, you use to read this thread. I still support my now 94-year old mother & older brother in a house I bought for them in a nearby age-restricted community (my little sister died about 6 months after my dad).
It is important to know what you're good at, and perhaps even more important to know what you're not good at. I don't think I'd be good at starting & running a company; my contributions to society come from being an employee at existing companies, driving incremental value. That, and, I've funded scholarships, a tenured chair, and my favorite charities (currently includes the National Ability Center and the Autism Research Institute, among others).
"you know about the 'insiders club' about top schools. Not about smarts, working hard, or getting skills - it is all about knowing the right people."
Quote:
False.
MBA's from lower ranked schools are not getting raises. They tend to get hit by the catch-22.
Quote:
While in grad school, I took classes/seminars from & studied under, for example,
Employers don't care about education, they care only about work experience.
Quote:
It is all about intelligence, working very hard, learning
Which employers do not value. People who do this get hit by the catch-22.
Quote:
and acquiring skills
Employers believe people cannot acquire skills in any educational setting. They believe skills do not exist until someone else paid the candidate to use them.
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- plus having a positive attitude.
I reject the "magic thoughts" doctrine. Having the "correct thoughts" does not force employers to hire people without experience. Preaching sorcery as the solution to the catch-22 is out of touch with reality.
Everyone in the whole facility thought it was about a big new product they got a contract to develop, turned out it was an organizational chart.
Hey org charts are hard!
Ours still has several people on it that no longer work there.
I think it should be updated.
But what do I know... I don't have an MBA. I'm just a stupid Engineering Guy!
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the ranch had neither running water nor electricity.
