Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-09-2023, 03:56 PM
 
304 posts, read 237,930 times
Reputation: 760

Advertisements

My brother works for a large corporation.

He got his 2022 evaluation last week. His boss rated him as "Not Fully Successful" and said "I'm going to put you on a PIP."

He further said "Based on your performance for the first part of 2023, we'd be giving you a large bonus."

My brother has not seen or been given the PIP yet.

My brother has, in his possession, 5 emails from his boss that came throughout 2022 that lauded him for his "good job" and "great work." There are no emails saying anything supportive of a PIP or indicating that he wasn't meeting standards.

I'd welcome the thoughts of anyone familiar with HR or Employment Law or The Corporate Beast in general on how to proceed/respond.

I can give more details but have tried to keep this concise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-09-2023, 04:05 PM
 
Location: In your head
1,075 posts, read 554,903 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhornet View Post
My brother works for a large corporation.

He got his 2022 evaluation last week. His boss rated him as "Not Fully Successful" and said "I'm going to put you on a PIP."

He further said "Based on your performance for the first part of 2023, we'd be giving you a large bonus."

My brother has not seen or been given the PIP yet.

My brother has, in his possession, 5 emails from his boss that came throughout 2022 that lauded him for his "good job" and "great work." There are no emails saying anything supportive of a PIP or indicating that he wasn't meeting standards.

I'd welcome the thoughts of anyone familiar with HR or Employment Law or The Corporate Beast in general on how to proceed/respond.

I can give more details but have tried to keep this concise.
This is likely a sign that they want your brother out, whether it's of his own doing or not. Since it looks like this is coming out of left field, it may be for budgetary reasons. Or your brother isn't telling you the full truth about his performance. I think what they want is for your brother to start looking for another job. Unless your brother is part of a protected class or is under contract, I don't think there is much standing for legal action.

I'd advise your brother to start looking for a new gig immediately.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2023, 04:06 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,566 posts, read 81,147,605 times
Reputation: 57777
I have put people on a PIP before, and in most cases working with them with regular meetings they have ended up correcting their problems and being successful. There is no law that I know of regarding a PIP, it's simply a tool used to help an employee bring their performance up to standard, to help keep them from being let go. Regardless of the positive feedback over the year, a PIP can come at any time. I would expect the PIP (a plan) to result in specific that outline what the employee and supervisor will do for the duration of the plan. In our case, there is a set date by which the person must show the improvement to meet the goals of the PIP. At that time if not met, I have the option to extend the PIP period, demote, or fire the person. There are no standard rules for PIPs, it's up to the individual company to set up the way they want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2023, 04:13 PM
 
6,345 posts, read 8,117,682 times
Reputation: 8784
At a previous employer, my manager announced a new offshoring initiative to India. He said no employees would lose their jobs due to the offshoring. We were told to train the new employees on our current job duties over the next month. After the training was complete, half of the domestic employes were placed on PIPs. The entry level candidates were not placed on PIPs. They were the cheapest employees. It was all the experienced employees that had been at the company for several years.

Everybody was fired or left for a new job within 3 months.

At many large corporations, they start giving out PIPs before a layoff. It's an early warning for the employee to look for a job. If your manager loves you, they will hand out a large bonus before you go. Many companies have announced layoffs in the past 6 months.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2023, 05:17 PM
 
304 posts, read 237,930 times
Reputation: 760
No mass layoffs.

The boss is being put on a PIP as are one of my brother's peers. Out of 8 senior managers, 3 are being put on PIPs.

It's been a very rough year for this business unit overall.

I appreciate the replies so far and welcome more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2023, 07:01 PM
 
Location: The DMV
6,590 posts, read 11,284,036 times
Reputation: 8653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhornet View Post
My brother works for a large corporation.

He got his 2022 evaluation last week. His boss rated him as "Not Fully Successful" and said "I'm going to put you on a PIP."

He further said "Based on your performance for the first part of 2023, we'd be giving you a large bonus."

My brother has not seen or been given the PIP yet.

My brother has, in his possession, 5 emails from his boss that came throughout 2022 that lauded him for his "good job" and "great work." There are no emails saying anything supportive of a PIP or indicating that he wasn't meeting standards.

I'd welcome the thoughts of anyone familiar with HR or Employment Law or The Corporate Beast in general on how to proceed/respond.

I can give more details but have tried to keep this concise.
PIPs are not a legal thing. There is no guideline from a legal perspective.

Some use PIP as just that - a 'training' tool to help improve performance.
Some use it as a warning/slap on the wrist - shape up or ship out. Without any real malice or intention to actually manage one out.
And finally, some use it as a process to manage underperforming employees out without any intention to help improve their performance.

There is no "standard" way. You can have a company that does all three - just depends on what the manager's intentions are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2023, 07:27 AM
 
6,345 posts, read 8,117,682 times
Reputation: 8784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhornet View Post
No mass layoffs.

The boss is being put on a PIP as are one of my brother's peers. Out of 8 senior managers, 3 are being put on PIPs.

It's been a very rough year for this business unit overall.

I appreciate the replies so far and welcome more.
The company may be pruning some areas in a small layoff. Regardless of the size, it's best for those employees to start looking.

Don't expect replacements for the 3 senior managers on the way out. The other subordinates will likely consolidate under the remaining 5 senior managers.

The executives might be targeting highest paid employees like middle management and senior individual contributors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2023, 10:21 AM
 
9,385 posts, read 8,356,698 times
Reputation: 19179
He has no legal recourse. He's likely hired at-will and they can and will terminate him for any reason under the sun (other than the illegal ones such as age, race, sexual orientation, etc.) without penalty.

Depending on the size of the bonus and how much I had saved, if this is me I'd wait until the day after my bonus hits my bank account and quit that day. Obviously not everyone is in a position to do that but I wouldn't want to continue working for a manager or employer who does this willy nilly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2023, 11:24 AM
 
55 posts, read 29,578 times
Reputation: 108
Putting someone a PIP is definitely not a good sign. Typically they are making a paper trail to get rid of a "problematic" employee. Your brother should do what he can within reason to stay on the good side of his manager. Layoffs are hitting a lot of industries now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2023, 01:26 PM
 
1,761 posts, read 2,605,662 times
Reputation: 1569
I know ideally a PIP is supposed to help an employee to give them an opportunity to improve so that they remain at the company...but in my experience PIPs are more or less the warning shot before the firing i.e... no matter what you do once you get the PIP you are going to get the boot. So if not already I would hope your brother is looking for another job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top