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We live in the Finger Lakes region of New York State. My husband has been self-employed for 25 years. We construct homes and have been sitting on a spec home for over 2 years. We sold our personal home and moved into the spec, but cannot afford to live here. My husband has not been able to find work for 2 years now and applying for jobs has proved unsuccessful. We will have to walk away from our home with our four children. It is a situation I never imagined I'd find myself in, and I am sure there are so many people out there suffering through the same uncertainty as we are. It is difficult to remain hopeful, and I often feel like giving up. We pray everyday for us and those who are experiencing the same.
I live not far from you arabesque, I used to live in Castile... You might know where that is... Rural NY is BAD. All the factories left because of the unions and pretty much shut some towns down. Rural NY is so nice, there are few more beautiful places in the world, but all Albany cares about is downstate, rural people to half of Albany are worthless, so they really only care about how their policies affect the city.
I really hope that you can find something. Which town are you in? I know that if you need to live in a more rural area that Pennsylvania, WV, and Ohio aren't doing great, but there are still jobs in the country. I feel for you, hopefully something good comes your way. Small town living has alot of upsides, but work is always a big downside
No. the factories did not "leave" because of the unions. They left because of greedy, corporate management who does not give a flying **** about their workers. I am so tired of this union bashing...
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Originally Posted by SouthBound47
[...] All the factories left because of the unions and pretty much shut some towns down. [...]
No. the factories did not "leave" because of the unions. They left because of greedy, corporate management who does not give a flying **** about their workers. I am so tired of this union bashing...
No, they left because of the unions. There was a factory near here that moved to the Nashville area, they made car axles and other parts. They explicitly stated that they could not be profitable due to the high labor costs in rural NY. You know why labor costs are high? Unions.
They didn't actually shed jobs. They actually added about 200 when they moved. I can't blame them. They are around to make money, not employ people at a loss.
Just look at the Japanese and European car companies. Are they located in the union heavy Northeast where the infrastructure for heavy and light manufacturing are already well established? No, they are mostly located in areas where there was little infrastructure, but also low levels of unionization. (Look at SC, KY, TN, GA, and AL)
You are dead wrong about the unions not driving jobs away. Recently a Boeing plant in SC voted to DECERTIFY the union, and what happened? Boeing added jobs. Is it greedy to add dozens of jobs in an area starving for employment?
And management always cares about their workers, so long as the worker is useful. If the worker wasn't useful (ie. profitable) what's the point in employing them? Companies aren't charities, they don't owe society jobs, and they especially don't owe society jobs that pay more than the value they add.
Why do you think that 2 of our car companies went bankrupt? It wasn't because labor costs were too low. It was because the unions sunk their fangs in, and managed to bleed them dry. If you want to increase employment in America overnight, do one thing - Institute Right to Work laws, and ban Job Shop unions.
I am in the SE there lots and lots of manufacturing plants have closed in various sectors. Were they unionized? No! But cheaper labor was still to be found in Mexico or China. It is not the unions...
Also, most industries in Germany are heavily unionized including automotive manufacturers. These are still successful, make money, an pay reasonably well including mandatory health benefits and retirement. Once again, one can run a successful business, and even a whole country, that is largely unionized.
Everything else is just misinformation, ideology, and propaganda....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthBound47
No, they left because of the unions. There was a factory near here that moved to the Nashville area, they made car axles and other parts. They explicitly stated that they could not be profitable due to the high labor costs in rural NY. You know why labor costs are high? Unions.
They didn't actually shed jobs. They actually added about 200 when they moved. I can't blame them. They are around to make money, not employ people at a loss.
Just look at the Japanese and European car companies. Are they located in the union heavy Northeast where the infrastructure for heavy and light manufacturing are already well established? No, they are mostly located in areas where there was little infrastructure, but also low levels of unionization. (Look at SC, KY, TN, GA, and AL)
You are dead wrong about the unions not driving jobs away. Recently a Boeing plant in SC voted to DECERTIFY the union, and what happened? Boeing added jobs. Is it greedy to add dozens of jobs in an area starving for employment?
And management always cares about their workers, so long as the worker is useful. If the worker wasn't useful (ie. profitable) what's the point in employing them? Companies aren't charities, they don't owe society jobs, and they especially don't owe society jobs that pay more than the value they add.
Why do you think that 2 of our car companies went bankrupt? It wasn't because labor costs were too low. It was because the unions sunk their fangs in, and managed to bleed them dry. If you want to increase employment in America overnight, do one thing - Institute Right to Work laws, and ban Job Shop unions.
Also, most industries in Germany are heavily unionized including automotive manufacturers. These are still successful, make money, an pay reasonably well including mandatory health benefits and retirement. Once again, one can run a successful business, and even a whole country, that is largely unionized.
You are correct, and Germany is actually almost as large an exporter as we are. Part of the reason for their success is that the unions there are far more willing to work their companies, not against them. BTW, the mandatory retirement age and healthcare in Germany don't come from the unions, but the government. Comparing unions and companies in Germany in terms of unions isn't fair because they are simply so different.
Quote:
I am in the SE there lots and lots of manufacturing plants have closed in various sectors.
Yes, lots have closed, now imagine being in the Northeast, we have to compete with job losses to Canada and Mexico, as well as job losses to areas where the company could actually have a fair fight at surviving.
Actually, until 2009 Germany was the leading exporter in the world. Only in 2009 was it surpassed for the first time by China. (But then, China has 1b+ ppl vs. 80m Germans.) And no, Germany is not "...almost as large as an exporter as we (implied: US) are."
While it is correct that unions have a very different role in Europe, it is also correct that they are much more powerful. Take for example co-determination: by law the Board of Directors of larger companies in certain sectors need to comprise 50% of workers' (union) representatives. Imagine that, workers actually participating in the management of their companies...heresy!
Healthcare in Germany does not come thru the government, different from, for example, the British NHS system. Get your facts straight, will you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthBound47
You are correct, and Germany is actually almost as large an exporter as we are. Part of the reason for their success is that the unions there are far more willing to work their companies, not against them. BTW, the mandatory retirement age and healthcare in Germany don't come from the unions, but the government. Comparing unions and companies in Germany in terms of unions isn't fair because they are simply so different.
Yes, lots have closed, now imagine being in the Northeast, we have to compete with job losses to Canada and Mexico, as well as job losses to areas where the company could actually have a fair fight at surviving.
Actually, until 2009 Germany was the leading exporter in the world. Only in 2009 was it surpassed for the first time by China. (But then, China has 1b+ ppl vs. 80m Germans.) And no, Germany is not "...almost as large as an exporter as we (implied: US) are."
While it is correct that unions have a very different role in Europe, it is also correct that they are much more powerful. Take for example co-determination: by law the Board of Directors of larger companies in certain sectors need to comprise 50% of workers' (union) representatives. Imagine that, workers actually participating in the management of their companies...heresy!
Healthcare in Germany does not come thru the government, different from, for example, the British NHS system. Get your facts straight, will you.
Those Germans are smart volks! I think this co-operative management style business is a fascinating idea. In fact, Michael Moore interviewed some people from an American company who operated just like this. They all seemed extremely satisfied with the way things worked at their company. As a matter of fact, even the CEO was praising it. Who woulda thought? If Americans can get over this idea of "individualism ranks superior", we might be able to see more of these co-op style businesses pop up here. I honestly cannot think of too many negative things to say about a democratically run business, where all workers get a say in how things are done. I mean, if you think it's the best system out there for your government, why not for your company?
That's impossible! Thanks to the rocket scientist journalists out there writing those "best places to live" articles, everbody knows that N.C. is the panacea that will cure all your woes! Move here and people rush up to you with fantastic job offers! Houses only cost a nickel! etc!
Sorry, just sick of seeing/hearing that idiocy from those moving here who buy into it. NC is mostly average to below average compared w/the rest of the country with many areas that were in seriously bad shape even before this bad economy kicked in.
Is this still news now? The new cure all place is now North Dakota, they apparently have more jobs than they can fill according to some of those articles.
I recently relocated to Raleigh from the north, and I wouldn't say it's below average compared to the rest of the country. There's worse places out there. Ever heard of a city called Detroit? Read the articles about the tent cities in Sacramento?
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