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Location: Monterey Bay, California -- watching the sea lions, whales and otters! :D
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It starts with the issue of your daughter's being mistaken for Japanese. The idea that her physical appearance could be mistaken for Japanese is itself fairly doubtful - if you reverse the equation, do you think you'd ever mistake an east-Asian for a dark haired caucasian? I don't see it..... But once you bring language into the equation, it goes from highly doubtful to more or less impossible. However prodigious your daughter's language-learning skills, she is not going to sound like a native after a year in the country. She may be fluent, especially if she's been studying the language for some years before, but it will take her a good deal longer before people start believing she may have been born in Japan.
I'm really sick and tired of this crap. They also did NOT know if she was Japanese from someplace else (i.e. US) or there. They also thought maybe "half-Japanese," probably knowing she was a student. Either you guys live in shells, and you don't "get" that there is a mixture of looks when people inter-marry. I guess everyone is assuming my kid looks like a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, Norwegian (of which I am 1/4), however, her father is very dark and has a very different look to him.
It just irks me that people are so stereotypical and inexperienced -- even in life. I see why I dropped out of C-D before.
And what did you not understand about "FLUENT?" She is a polyglot....that means someone who really DOES speak the language the way it is.... She's been studying Japanese since she was NINE. And, yes, proudly I WILL brag: she IS gifted (YES, she WAS tested AND PASSED). And I'm proud of her and her language abilities. She is currently simultaneously learning KOREAN AND MONGOLIAN. AND she also speaks Mandarin, Cantonese and Spanish (she lived in South America and all of her jobs have been due to her FLUENCY in Spanish -- handy here in CA). Her NEXT language to learn is Russian because of her heritage -- plus Mongolian is a lot of Russian, anyway, so it will make it easier and quicker for her to pick up. (Her boyfriend is Mongolian.) I would bet that most of you are NOT polyglots, or if you speak several languages that they're Roman languages (i.e. use a Roman alphabet and there are many similarities). And why in the world would a JAPANESE researcher/professor ask HER to do a translation for him into English for a paper he was writing?? Yes, that also happened -- from a Japanese person! Obviously, she had to know how to read and understand Japanese to do so -- she just got paid for that job, too, although she is currently in China - but she had to finish the translation when she moved to China. Certainly she was respected enough for her language skills to receive this translation job. (Besides, she needed the money...and she was also going to school full-time in China when she completed the job for him.) It seems her language skills must have been observed and accepted in this case -- he DID pay her for it and was very pleased with the results. She is unique.
So, just to show you, here are just our eyes -- her parents. Guess whose darker version she got? So, yeah, she can pass. I'm so sick and tired of people who haven't been around a lot, or just hang out with the same kinds of people wherever they are.
Just because I'm American and my ex is a Russian, does not mean that he looks like Baryshnikov.
So, for comparison's sake, and so you can see how this mixture COULD create an individual with light skin (like Japanese), dark hair, more almond eyes, and tiny (I am extremely short). Why is this so hard to believe??? It happens all the time with mixtures.
My eyes -- obviously, I'm the blonde, blue-eyed, round-eyed person:
The Russian father, on the other hand, looks quite different from me:
The prejudice and nastiness here has proven that I have to just stick with the "real" people I know who understand....because they DO know the truth.
And if you think I'd even post a photo of my daughter, you're out of your minds. I revealed too much, as it is, but it just makes me so upset that people are so narrow-minded and inexperienced that I feel I have to go to such lengths.
I also did NOT say there was no produce in Japan, but rather that the diet is not the stereotype. I did not also say that there are more fat people in Japan, but rather that there ARE dietary problems - such as anorexia. Gees, you people take so much out of context.
I wasn't asking about any little Wikipedia answers. Obviously, there are others who share my experiences from living there quite a long time, and I know them personally, not from some forum. I (re)learned my lesson and will stick with "real" people from now on. I also did not say ALL experiences were bad - merely gave different sides. Why I thought the other-side-of-the-coin might have been an interesting juxtaposition, I don't know -- I'm interested in alternative experiences and ideas from people in real life -- and I've had loads of them. I should have known better than to come back here....
Sorry you guys got all freaked out that someone should stir the pot with realities instead of stereotypes. You can be sure I will not be back. Farewell. (And before someone says it, I'll say it for you: I won't let the door hit me on the way out!) . Lucky you!
I'm really sick and tired of this crap. They also did NOT know if she was Japanese from someplace else (i.e. US) or there. They also thought maybe "half-Japanese," probably knowing she was a student. Either you guys live in shells, and you don't "get" that there is a mixture of looks when people inter-marry. I guess everyone is assuming my kid looks like a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, Norwegian (of which I am 1/4), however, her father is very dark and has a very different look to him.
It just irks me that people are so stereotypical and inexperienced -- even in life. I see why I dropped out of C-D before.
And what did you not understand about "FLUENT?" She is a polyglot....that means someone who really DOES speak the language the way it is.... She's been studying Japanese since she was NINE. And, yes, proudly I WILL brag: she IS gifted (YES, she WAS tested AND PASSED). And I'm proud of her and her language abilities. She is currently simultaneously learning KOREAN AND MONGOLIAN. AND she also speaks Mandarin, Cantonese and Spanish (she lived in South America and all of her jobs have been due to her FLUENCY in Spanish -- handy here in CA). Her NEXT language to learn is Russian because of her heritage -- plus Mongolian is a lot of Russian, anyway, so it will make it easier and quicker for her to pick up. (Her boyfriend is Mongolian.) I would bet that most of you are NOT polyglots, or if you speak several languages that they're Roman languages (i.e. use a Roman alphabet and there are many similarities). And why in the world would a JAPANESE researcher/professor ask HER to do a translation for him into English for a paper he was writing?? Yes, that also happened -- from a Japanese person! Obviously, she had to know how to read and understand Japanese to do so -- she just got paid for that job, too, although she is currently in China - but she had to finish the translation when she moved to China. Certainly she was respected enough for her language skills to receive this translation job. (Besides, she needed the money...and she was also going to school full-time in China when she completed the job for him.) It seems her language skills must have been observed and accepted in this case -- he DID pay her for it and was very pleased with the results. She is unique.
So, just to show you, here are just our eyes -- her parents. Guess whose darker version she got? So, yeah, she can pass. I'm so sick and tired of people who haven't been around a lot, or just hang out with the same kinds of people wherever they are.
Just because I'm American and my ex is a Russian, does not mean that he looks like Baryshnikov.
So, for comparison's sake, and so you can see how this mixture COULD create an individual with light skin (like Japanese), dark hair, more almond eyes, and tiny (I am extremely short). Why is this so hard to believe??? It happens all the time with mixtures.
My eyes -- obviously, I'm the blonde, blue-eyed, round-eyed person: Attachment 105456
The Russian father, on the other hand, looks quite different from me: Attachment 105457
The prejudice and nastiness here has proven that I have to just stick with the "real" people I know who understand....because they DO know the truth.
And if you think I'd even post a photo of my daughter, you're out of your minds. I revealed too much, as it is, but it just makes me so upset that people are so narrow-minded and inexperienced that I feel I have to go to such lengths.
I also did NOT say there was no produce in Japan, but rather that the diet is not the stereotype. I did not also say that there are more fat people in Japan, but rather that there ARE dietary problems - such as anorexia. Gees, you people take so much out of context.
I wasn't asking about any little Wikipedia answers. Obviously, there are others who share my experiences from living there quite a long time, and I know them personally, not from some forum. I (re)learned my lesson and will stick with "real" people from now on. I also did not say ALL experiences were bad - merely gave different sides. Why I thought the other-side-of-the-coin might have been an interesting juxtaposition, I don't know -- I'm interested in alternative experiences and ideas from people in real life -- and I've had loads of them. I should have known better than to come back here....
Sorry you guys got all freaked out that someone should stir the pot with realities instead of stereotypes. You can be sure I will not be back. Farewell. (And before someone says it, I'll say it for you: I won't let the door hit me on the way out!) . Lucky you!
Dear dear. Considering the low esteem in which you profess to hold opinions expressed on this forum, you do seem to be getting into quite a flap. You are upset at the ignorance of people who 'haven't been around', but I suppose I can exclude myself from this category since I have visited twice the countries you have before reaching half your age.
It's your word against mine as to whether a person of mostly European ancestry, however petite and dark, could be widely taken in Japan as Japanese. Readers can make their own judgement on this. I can't personally see how the images of two pairs of European-looking eyes would alter this judgement.
Likewise I don't believe there is any element of the notion of 'fluency' in a language that I have misunderstood. Fluency means the ability to communicate unimpeded by any significant language barrier. It does not mean that one will be mistaken for a native speaker. I know a great number of second-language English speakers whom I would describe as 'fluent', but that doesn't mean I'd ever mistake one of them as someone who spoke English as their first language. People do of course reach the point where they lose all 'foreign' accent and correct every quirk of usage to the point where they can pass as a native in a second language, but I have personally never encountered anyone who has done this in less than several years of immersion. Perhaps your daughter has, in which case she's a true prodigy - and what she's achieved is far more than 'fluency'. And of course she's a polyglot, but that means she can communicate effectively and without impediment in a variety of languages, not that she will be mistaken for a native speaker!
It's great that she's been given work making Japanese-to-English translations, and that clearly means she speaks great Japanese - but you should know that it's standard practice for translations to be made by a native speaker of the language being translated into, rather than the language being translated from, which is the obvious reason why she, rather than a Japanese professor, would be suited to the task. A Japanese to English translation needs ideally to be made by someone who speaks fluent Japanese, but is a native speaker in English, like your daughter. When she starts getting work translating INTO Japanese, you can probably claim she has reached 'native' standard.
Sorry that my links were only from Wikipedia. However, those pages did contain references from the UN, CIA World Factbook, OECD, and so on. And you didn't offer anything but anecdote yourself. All the statistics I gave chime with my own experiences, eg, that you are at lower risk of death, less likely to encounter alcohol-related disorder, and less likely to encounter obesity in Japan than in the US, Europe, or the Anglophone world.
I think it would be as well for you to remember that you, too, are just a poster on 'some forum' - people in glass houses, etc! You also stated last time that you had said all you need to on the matter - so I fancy that even if you don't deign to reply, you might just be reading this post...
[I thought you all knew I was a woman, not a man....and Japan is very patriarchal...meaning, women are not treated as well....]
Wow, well, frankly, I think it is you who is sheltered. You are free to explore all this information. If you never heard of these things, then you are sheltered.
Kyoto cab driver doing that? Yes, he did. He was across the street, a block from the place -- we could see the lights, but he would not go around and pull us up front. Even speaking to him in Japanese did not calm him. We paid him, he went and opened the trunk, and there went our luggage into the street. And being women, and as tiny as we are, we were shocked. Well, the Japanese woman at the hotel understood it. But she was of an older generation (in her 70s) and they had a different opinion of foreigners from when they were young. Unfortunately, I do look white (and with blonde hair, totally the opposite of her), so she started getting treated badly because of me being there....which I couldn't hide..
My daughter looks kind of Asian, and her facial structure looks very Japanese (her father was a dark-haired Russian - you do realize that Russia borders Asia??), and, yes, it was kind of confusing. Her boyfriend, who is Mongolian (Mongolia also borders Russia and their language is a mix of Russian, Arabic and Chinese -- but you might think that is a lie, too), is often mistaken for Japanese, but then they discover he is not and is condemned. He is the M.D. and Ph.D. in neuroscience who told us (and showed us the hospital and labs) about treating those patients. We knew about the tapeworms years ago - that was pretty common knowledge, especially amongst girls.
Those are all my own photos -- not internet photos.
I doubt if you are immersed in their culture, by the way. If you were, your responses would probably be different. This is stupid. You're doubting my immersion experience and my daughter's who lived there for a year, and also others we know very well who have lived there for years. You are only referring to the Tokyo area then because if you were around the country and totally immersed, you'd see a whole other angle. You sound like a tourist or a business person. There are often Expat places and often business people (who don't know the language) do hang out with others like themselves and miss out on the cultural variety of the people born and raised there. There's a cultural hierarchy there, which you must know about, but I have a feeling you mostly hang out with English speakers and don't get too far into the real, down-to-earth, basic cultural experiences. I'm just very shocked and surprised you seem so uninformed when what I talked about are pretty common knowledge amongst non-tourists.
So, just forget it. If you do enough research or know enough people in other places, other than just Tokyo, you may be in for some surprises. Before I even went I knew people who had lived and worked in Japan for years -- they literally warned me of some of the things I experienced. I did NOT believe them. What a shock when it happened.
And yes, my kid can pass. She has that Russian part of her that with her dark hair, petite size, and fluency in Japanese, she can "pass." There are many times Japanese get confused as to what other Asians are. One of her Vietnamese friends was thought to be Japanese, too, but once it was discovered she was Vietnamese, then she was also ostracized. I can see you have not been immersed in the culture deeply or had very varied experiences -- otherwise, you would recognize what I'm talking about -- I thought you knew more than you do.
Believe what you want. Oh, yeah, sure, I'm making it all up -- for what purpose? When I was forewarned about Japan, I pooh poohed it -- they were right, I was wrong (at least I can admit it). If you're there for a long time (more than 6 months, and preferably over a year to many more) you will see. Obviously, you have not been that involved in the culture because these would not be surprises to you -- as they are not to people I know who have lived there for years. I honestly hope you live in OTHER places than Tokyo at some point, and see more of the culture. To think I'd make up a story about a taxi driver -- I was traumatized! But the woman at the hotel comforted us -- she understood.
It sounds like just a bunch of tourists here. So, knowing it's now a tourist thread, there's no point in adding onto this. You think you know everything. Well, find out more. And, by the way, if you can actually READ and SPEAK Japanese, you can easily go online and find out how to purchase those pills. I didn't have to go far to find something in English about them: here's a quote from the link about the "Tapeworm Diet":Tapeworm Diet - Banned In The United States - Roundworm Diet
Weight loss is pretty much guaranteed
A scientist in Japan believes that tapeworms can also help clear up allergies like hay feverOr what about this: An Asian Diet Pill Unlike Any Other :: APSG From that link right there is this section: An Asian Diet Pill Unlike Any Other
Most young East Asian women are on a perpetual diet and so should be able to successfully field this question: What's the most potent weight loss pill available?
The answer is a rather poorly-kept old secret that's now spreading across Japan, Hong Kong, mainland China, and, undoubtedly, into South Korea.
It costs only $40, but it works. Four pills and just forget everything else. That's right. No watching what you eat, no appetite suppressants or amphetamines, no sweaty exercise. Just four little pills full of parasites.
To be precise, tapeworm eggs. Usually the beef tapeworm, but nobody ever knows for sure since the pills are not manufactured by big pharma but rather small-time shady entrepreneurs.
And, if you know the language and know people who know, it's not hard to get. That is no secret, either!
The Chinese go back and forth. Most Chinese I knew in Japan went back to China often. It's not hard to get these things, and they ARE popular. There is a ton of stuff out there. You are the ones who are inexperienced. To know this stuff, obviously, you have to know people who know -- you don't. So, my truth looks to you like lies only because you didn't know about it.
And "animated" does not mean "LOUD" it means talkative. I am a very tiny person (4'10") and I merely was having normal conversation -- but I didn't whisper (Japanese seem to almost whisper in their talk or just eat and remain quiet), and I did talk about many things. I am 65 years old and have been all over the world. You, obviously, are much younger and inexperienced. You are not an expert on Japan, that is for sure.
I will not stoop to argue with someone who doesn't even know the realities of how it functions on a long-term basis, or is open to learning more. Down the road (as often happens when I bring up things people have not heard of) someone will private message me with "Wow, I'm glad you put that there!" because THEY didn't want to be involved in arguing.
And to Fitzrovian, it only sounds like you were a tourist and you probably don't read or speak Japanese. You do realize, that people have a particular way of communicating there and some are actually (in jobs/stores/restaurants, etc.) have to be polite as part of their job. If you knew the language and could listen in, you might be surprised. Obviously, this is a tourist thread, and I misunderstood. I'm glad you liked your experience, and the others, too, who enjoyed it. I only put the other side of the coin up because I saw that it was kind of one-sided and I thought some people were more aware of other things than they are. It was a mixed bag for me there, although I was forewarned, knowing I wasn't going technically as a tourist and staying in homes mostly. I met some nice people, and I met some mean people. I had a good immersion experience, so I took away two sides of the coin...not just one.
This is why I think that cultural exchange via living in a country is so valuable - especially in today's global society. Touring does not show you the "inside." As a tourist, you assume too much from just outward things. Tourism is precisely meant to only show one side -- not surprising that tour groups and tour books lead people in only one direction.
I guess the best way to know Japan is through a travelogue or a guide book -- or so it seems here..... I didn't want to come in and report back, but I felt it necessary to at least link the "preposterous" notion that tapeworm pills for dieting was a lie. That's actually more common than I'm sure you'd want to know... I have no need to argue -- if you really want to find out that I'm (not) telling lies, then feel free to search it -- you may well be surprised.
This is hilarious. I speak, read, and write Japanese and have lived in Japan for years. You don't speak, read, or write Japanese and have not lived in Japan for an extended period of time and yet amazingly you think you have the ability to preach to others about their lack of immersion in Japanese culture lol. YOU are the one who has no immersion and who's stories and experiences continually cite OTHER FOREIGNERS.
Oh and as for your little tapeworm article? I did check the link and it is trash. It states what a supposed tapeworm diet can do and cites absolutely no sources as to how common it is in Japan. You also post something about a doctor commenting on tapeworm uses for other things as if that is relevant. You do understand what makes good evidence and how the internet works correct? Being able to find the words "tapeworm diet" on an internet page doesn't mean squat. Oh and guess what? I also search for it in Japanese (サナダ虫ダイエット) and you know what I found? Nothing outside of it being talked about pretty much on the order of an urban myth basically equivalent of what you find when searching for it in English. And BTW English media LOVES Japan craziness so if there was some sort of tapeworm diet that had become popular among Japanese women you would be able to find articles of it everywhere.
What I'm almost sure has happened is that you are talking about people taking fresh water alga protozoan supplements that under a microscope have a flagellum that I guess could look scary but in reality are not remotely related to or anything like a freaking tapeworm. It's basically a semi-plant supplement that I suppose in the urban myth rumor mill can be turned into a "tapeworm".
The Japanese friends I asked also have no damn clue as to what you are talking about.
I think that should cover it for now and show that anyone would be wise to take anything you say with a very large grain of salt.
It's great that she's been given work making Japanese-to-English translations, and that clearly means she speaks great Japanese - but you should know that it's standard practice for translations to be made by a native speaker of the language being translated into, rather than the language being translated from, which is the obvious reason why she, rather than a Japanese professor, would be suited to the task. A Japanese to English translation needs ideally to be made by someone who speaks fluent Japanese, but is a native speaker in English, like your daughter. When she starts getting work translating INTO Japanese, you can probably claim she has reached 'native' standard.
Actually anyone who has spent time in Japan and learned Japanese to at least an intermediate level can tell you that the bar for being involved in translation in Japan is hilariously low. Being asked by a professor to translate something for him into your native language tells almost nothing about high level Japanese abilities. In means you definitely aren't a beginner but that is about it.
Actually anyone who has spent time in Japan and learned Japanese to at least an intermediate level can tell you that the bar for being involved in translation in Japan is hilariously low. Being asked by a professor to translate something for him into your native language tells almost nothing about high level Japanese abilities. In means you definitely aren't a beginner but that is about it.
Sure. But you can see how the line I took ('I'm sure your daughter speaks great Japanese, but I don't think she'd be confused for a native') would be more conducive to helping someone to abandon a flawed position than 'your daughter might suck at Japanese and still get that job, in fact I doubt your daughter is even in Japan, in fact I doubt you even have a daughter', etc...
And the particular point I made, that one's ability in the destination language is more important than one's ability in the source language, is correct as far as I know.
As I said some pages back... I've been to NYC, London, and Paris; hope to get to Tokyo this spring.
Of the three I've been to, I'd choose London - love it over there. One of my friends over there keeps telling me I should move over so we could open a pub That'd be a blast, no doubt... I miss bartending, and I'm sure it'd be a somewhat-stable source of income. I'd have to give up a lot of what I've made for myself here, though...
After that, I'd take Paris. Nothing at all against NYC, just that I lived there previously and as great as it is, I didn't enjoy it enough to want to stay there. With what I'm doing with my art and writing these days, there's a good chance that I may end up there at some point, or at least maintain a home there due to the number of art galleries/collectors/brokers, publishing houses, etc... same deal in London. Paris, less so for publishing as I don't speak French; Tokyo, less so because although I know some Japanese, not enough to be a published author and it'd take a few years to get comfortable enough with my command of the written language.
Holding judgement based on Tokyo, but I'd certainly like to try it for some degree of time.
Just spent the whole day walking through knightsbridge and the west end in london. Truly astonishing city -- Samuel Johnson would be really proud.
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. Lucky you! 
