Do Americans' definitions of ethnic diversity differ from those of other nations? (versus, move to)
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Oh yeah. Just get Chinese and Vietnamese started on one another.
I got hit by a Chinese woman in a Lexus, whose sons immediately rushed to the scene a few minutes later and tried to accuse me of hitting her. The cops came and sided with me, but not before the sons lied about having been on the scene when it happened, accusing me of being drunk, etc... my ex in the passenger's seat, who was Vietnamese-American, was like, "this is why I hate the Chinese. They're so arrogant. They think that they can ride the model minority thing and use it to get away with lying to cops."
A few years later, I was with a Chinese-American girl who was really upset that her brother was dating a Vietnamese-American girl. I asked her what her issue was since she'd never met her previously, and she was like, "because Vietnamese girls are party animals... all they do is party, and they're easy, they just go after dudes who they think have money and use it up getting their nails done. And their accents..." she launches into a shrill, ching-chong-ish accent. Yeesh...
I got hit by a Chinese woman in a Lexus, whose sons immediately rushed to the scene a few minutes later and tried to accuse me of hitting her. The cops came and sided with me, but not before the sons lied about having been on the scene when it happened, accusing me of being drunk, etc... my ex in the passenger's seat, who was Vietnamese-American, was like, "this is why I hate the Chinese. They're so arrogant. They think that they can ride the model minority thing and use it to get away with lying to cops."
A few years later, I was with a Chinese-American girl who was really upset that her brother was dating a Vietnamese-American girl. I asked her what her issue was since she'd never met her previously, and she was like, "because Vietnamese girls are party animals... all they do is party, and they're easy, they just go after dudes who they think have money and use it up getting their nails done. And their accents..." she launches into a shrill, ching-chong-ish accent. Yeesh...
Haha sounds about right although your examples are funny. I remember working at Sea World and when we would get Chinese and Vietnamese working together, it was only a matter of time before they started bad-mouthing one another.
I got hit by a Chinese woman in a Lexus, whose sons immediately rushed to the scene a few minutes later and tried to accuse me of hitting her. The cops came and sided with me, but not before the sons lied about having been on the scene when it happened, accusing me of being drunk, etc... my ex in the passenger's seat, who was Vietnamese-American, was like, "this is why I hate the Chinese. They're so arrogant. They think that they can ride the model minority thing and use it to get away with lying to cops."
A few years later, I was with a Chinese-American girl who was really upset that her brother was dating a Vietnamese-American girl. I asked her what her issue was since she'd never met her previously, and she was like, "because Vietnamese girls are party animals... all they do is party, and they're easy, they just go after dudes who they think have money and use it up getting their nails done. And their accents..." she launches into a shrill, ching-chong-ish accent. Yeesh...
That's weird. Unless the Vietnamese is a fresh off boat, she shouldn't have an accent.
That's weird. Unless the Vietnamese is a fresh off boat, she shouldn't have an accent.
That's not necessarily true. Many immigrant communities in California often retain accents even if native born as the often learn their native language first. This is true among Vietnamese, Mexicans and some other groups. If they don't live in a community of their culture then the accent and often the language becomes diluted but it's entirely possible for them to maintain it. California makes it very easy for immigrants to maintain their cultture, especially when it comes to language. For example, one can get a drivers license as long as they know enough English to understand raod signs. the test itself is available in at least a dozen languages as are other state services. Therefore,many may not start learning English until they start grade school and even then, they often pick up the accent from their peers of the same ethnic group.
That's weird. Unless the Vietnamese is a fresh off boat, she shouldn't have an accent.
Well, it didn't matter whether or not she actually had an accent - she was bitching about Vietnamese people, which is racist. If you're going to be racist, you're going to go off of stereotypes - especially offensive ones. That's why she did that... the irony being that she's Chinese American herself, and people use the same thing to denigrate Chinese people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo
That's not necessarily true. Many immigrant communities in California often retain accents even if native born as the often learn their native language first. This is true among Vietnamese, Mexicans and some other groups. If they don't live in a community of their culture then the accent and often the language becomes diluted but it's entirely possible for them to maintain it. California makes it very easy for immigrants to maintain their cultture, especially when it comes to language. For example, one can get a drivers license as long as they know enough English to understand raod signs. the test itself is available in at least a dozen languages as are other state services. Therefore,many may not start learning English until they start grade school and even then, they often pick up the accent from their peers of the same ethnic group.
^ and this is true, too. Go over to East LA, and you'll get people who are second or third generation American, but still have an accent, because the community is still filled with people who are immigrants with accents. If grow up in an area where everyone goes "tch!" with their teeth and then, "maaaan" with a raised lilt from the second "A" to the end before starting a sentence where they're complaining about something, you'll probably start doing that. If you say it "wrong," you'll be corrected till you say it right.
My ex who was Vietnamese-American moved to the US when she was a little kid and used the back of her palate when pronouncing some words; even though she'd spoken English since she was four, she still got some of her pronunciations from her family. Also, when she said, "oh my god!" she'd pronounce it "oh my gaah!" like her mom; if she'd what me on the shoulder and say "shut up!" she'd pronounce it, "chut up!" even though she didn't have an obvious or perceptible accent.
Hell, thanks to my family being from Sweden, I pronounce the first "A" in Jaguar like the "E" in "egg," so it's more like "Jaeguar" like when my grandparents or dad said it, even though I have a weird Boston/California accent thing going on otherwise (for instance, I say "dude" like a Bostonian, i.e. "dewd" rather than "duuude"). It's interesting how these things trickle down through generations.
Exactly, and countries like Canada and Australia are also pretty 'new' at 'diversity' anyway, so it's still a "big deal" for them, with plenty of "atta boys" along the way… simply because they've recently managed to cope with a large influx of "furiners" (who BTW have been a huge improvement on the typically bland Brit. cooking)! When in fact the history of the U.S. is almost entirely made up of one huge wave of immigrants after another…. "give us your poor and huddled masses" indeed!?!
And naturally bragging about 'diversity' is always lots easier when you have the luxury of way less population density than the U.S., or even most other countries. But start pushing 'em closer together, and let's hear about your vaunted "diversity" then!
Which reminds me of traveling around British Columbia shortly after 9/11, when even in 'cosmopolitan' Vancouver, the anti-muslim sentiment there was so common (and so nasty), that it woulda made any 'xenophobe' proud!
You keep saying this I really got no idea what you mean? Canada and Australia might be vastly populated, but the large majority of the population of both countries live in cities of more than 1 million people.Communities like this are certainly not uncommon in Australia, and I would assume Canada as well.
And many people in one Asian community harbor the same sort of stereotypes and prejudices of other Asian communities that non-Asians harbor about them...
Is that how it is here? I notice here most young Asians, or at least ones who grew up or were born here, tend to identify a lot with Asians in general, with that pan-Asian identity, no matter which country they're from. I think how non-Asians see and treat them makes them unite more too.
I was just thinking about how American categories of race and ethnicity are pretty broad.
They are white, black, Asian, Hispanic. These are typically the government categories and they are everywhere. They seem like stock categories that are pretty rigid in people's minds. I find people try to box people into these broad categories too much.
For a nation of immigrants and settlers, you would expect more nuanced categories on ethnic diversity. When people argue about diversity in the US, there is too much emphasis only on how many people as a percent are non-white. Almost every talking point is how many non-whites are there? How many blacks? How many Hispanics? How many Asians etc.
But there is so much more than that. A Nigerian is so much culturally different from a Somalian or Afro-Jamaican. An Indian Parsi is so much different from a Chinese Singaporean. Some people around city-data who are Canadians even mentioned Canadians have a more nuanced definition of diversity in ethnicity where culture is taken into account. Something I've heard too is that say a French-speaking Haitian is seen as more in common with a white French-Canadian while English-speaking Jamaicans have more in common with Anglo-Canadians, it's claimed, because there language is the main divider, not race. Doesn't language and culture trump physical appearance or at least sometimes?
Technically ethnicity takes into account culture, while race refers to appearance based on ancestry but other than Hispanics being Spanish speaking or having roots from Spanish colonies, few of the US race/ethnicity categories take into account cultural ties (eg. blacks are seen as just one group in the US regardless of culture or continent of origin, but Brits distinguish on their census Caribbean blacks and African blacks).
How are other country's ideas of ethnicity categories, like, or at least perceptions thereof?
Yes. Culture and language trumps race.
And Hispanic is NOT a race. Latino is NOT a race. Arab is NOT a race.
I was just thinking about how American categories of race and ethnicity are pretty broad.
They are white, black, Asian, Hispanic. These are typically the government categories and they are everywhere. They seem like stock categories that are pretty rigid in people's minds. I find people try to box people into these broad categories too much.
For a nation of immigrants and settlers, you would expect more nuanced categories on ethnic diversity. When people argue about diversity in the US, there is too much emphasis only on how many people as a percent are non-white. Almost every talking point is how many non-whites are there? How many blacks? How many Hispanics? How many Asians etc.
But there is so much more than that. A Nigerian is so much culturally different from a Somalian or Afro-Jamaican. An Indian Parsi is so much different from a Chinese Singaporean. Some people around city-data who are Canadians even mentioned Canadians have a more nuanced definition of diversity in ethnicity where culture is taken into account. Something I've heard too is that say a French-speaking Haitian is seen as more in common with a white French-Canadian while English-speaking Jamaicans have more in common with Anglo-Canadians, it's claimed, because there language is the main divider, not race. Doesn't language and culture trump physical appearance or at least sometimes?
Technically ethnicity takes into account culture, while race refers to appearance based on ancestry but other than Hispanics being Spanish speaking or having roots from Spanish colonies, few of the US race/ethnicity categories take into account cultural ties (eg. blacks are seen as just one group in the US regardless of culture or continent of origin, but Brits distinguish on their census Caribbean blacks and African blacks).
How are other country's ideas of ethnicity categories, like, or at least perceptions thereof?
Hispanics can be of any race or mix of races.
Most African Americans are mixed race/multiracial, NOT black.
That's not necessarily true. Many immigrant communities in California often retain accents even if native born as the often learn their native language first. This is true among Vietnamese, Mexicans and some other groups. If they don't live in a community of their culture then the accent and often the language becomes diluted but it's entirely possible for them to maintain it. California makes it very easy for immigrants to maintain their cultture, especially when it comes to language. For example, one can get a drivers license as long as they know enough English to understand raod signs. the test itself is available in at least a dozen languages as are other state services. Therefore,many may not start learning English until they start grade school and even then, they often pick up the accent from their peers of the same ethnic group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k
Well, it didn't matter whether or not she actually had an accent - she was bitching about Vietnamese people, which is racist. If you're going to be racist, you're going to go off of stereotypes - especially offensive ones. That's why she did that... the irony being that she's Chinese American herself, and people use the same thing to denigrate Chinese people.
^ and this is true, too. Go over to East LA, and you'll get people who are second or third generation American, but still have an accent, because the community is still filled with people who are immigrants with accents. If grow up in an area where everyone goes "tch!" with their teeth and then, "maaaan" with a raised lilt from the second "A" to the end before starting a sentence where they're complaining about something, you'll probably start doing that. If you say it "wrong," you'll be corrected till you say it right.
My ex who was Vietnamese-American moved to the US when she was a little kid and used the back of her palate when pronouncing some words; even though she'd spoken English since she was four, she still got some of her pronunciations from her family. Also, when she said, "oh my god!" she'd pronounce it "oh my gaah!" like her mom; if she'd what me on the shoulder and say "shut up!" she'd pronounce it, "chut up!" even though she didn't have an obvious or perceptible accent.
Hell, thanks to my family being from Sweden, I pronounce the first "A" in Jaguar like the "E" in "egg," so it's more like "Jaeguar" like when my grandparents or dad said it, even though I have a weird Boston/California accent thing going on otherwise (for instance, I say "dude" like a Bostonian, i.e. "dewd" rather than "duuude"). It's interesting how these things trickle down through generations.
This is very interesting, because I live in Melbourne which has these super-Asian enclaves (some are like 75% Asian, where more English is the minority language, most people are born overseas.etc). I lived in one and even hear a lot of young Vietnamese speaking Vietnamese among themselves, I didn't think we still got a lot of immigrants from Vietnam though. Anyway, I met a Cambodian Australian girl (actually on this forum, but I haven't heard from her in ages) who was born here but still had a pretty foreign sounding accent! I was quite surprised. I mentioned this but I hope I didn't offend her because she stopped replying to my emails .
But yes, it's not uncommon among Lebanese too...it depends on your upbringing and how insulated you are in that community. I wasn't even born in Australia but am more integrated than someone like her. English is the only language I know, and my upbringing was more westernised (Singapore/Malaysian background).
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who was really upset that her brother was dating a Vietnamese-American girl. I asked her what her issue was since she'd never met her previously, and she was like, "because Vietnamese girls are party animals... all they do is party, and they're easy, they just go after dudes who they think have money and use it up getting their nails done. And their accents..." she launches into a shrill, ching-chong-ish accent. Yeesh...
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