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Old 01-31-2015, 10:51 PM
 
3,804 posts, read 6,173,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuuKulgur View Post
What would you propose, split China into 56 different states? Would this also apply to other countries as well, where there are ethnic minorities? I don't quite get your comparison, since it makes little sense. Do you really think all the minorities in China desire to be independent? I don't quite buy it. Look at Outer Mongolia and how they are doing.
Don't see how it would be a problem if that is what people want. Mongolia has seen it's economy boom over the last few years. Their biggest issue is being surrounded by two gigantic nations who've both invaded their neighbors over border disputes in the last few decades,
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 744,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
Don't see how it would be a problem if that is what people want. Mongolia has seen it's economy boom over the last few years. Their biggest issue is being surrounded by two gigantic nations who've both invaded their neighbors over border disputes in the last few decades,
Actually, apart from the people living in Tibet and Xinjiang, most people from China i have spoke to (and I spoke to a lot of people) do not want that.

Nearly all the ethnic minorities are concentrated and clustered in Xinjiang, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria and Southwest China.

Out of all the regions I have mentioned, none were really part of China's traditional civilization sphere.

Take southwest china for example, even though the area had all along been under Qing rule, the Han only began migrating there in mass numbers as refugees when japan started gobbling up China during the 1920s-1930s.

Manchuria has basically been totally sinicized.

But really, a China split apart would mean tens of millions upon tens of millions dying in violent wars. That is because there is this cultural narrative that the "central plains" must be united by force, if necessary(do you know what i am talking about when i say "central plains"?)
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:16 AM
 
3,804 posts, read 6,173,875 times
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If people don't want independence nothing wrong with that either. Isn't the better of the two worlds the one that allows people to choose to change if they want to?

I cannot say that I do know for certain what the Central Plains are. I would hazard a guess that it is the steppe area that spawned nomads like the Huns and Mongols, but that is just a shot in the dark. Wherever they are though, I think you've hit on a problem with people instead of a democratic system. If people choose to go to war because they feel some historical accident gives them claim on their neighbor's land that is a problem inherent in the invaders not in a system that allows people to choose not to be dominated by that neighbor.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:51 AM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,175,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
Actually, apart from the people living in Tibet and Xinjiang, most people from China i have spoke to (and I spoke to a lot of people) do not want that.

Nearly all the ethnic minorities are concentrated and clustered in Xinjiang, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria and Southwest China.

Out of all the regions I have mentioned, none were really part of China's traditional civilization sphere.

Take southwest china for example, even though the area had all along been under Qing rule, the Han only began migrating there in mass numbers as refugees when japan started gobbling up China during the 1920s-1930s.

Manchuria has basically been totally sinicized.

But really, a China split apart would mean tens of millions upon tens of millions dying in violent wars. That is because there is this cultural narrative that the "central plains" must be united by force, if necessary(do you know what i am talking about when i say "central plains"?)
Oh I'm sure you spoke to a "great many" of the 1,300,000,000 people living in China.

Suppose you spoke to 10 unique Chinese people per day and asked them the same question. That translates to 3650 survey participants per year. At that rate, it would take you a full 100 years of daily interaction to reach a sample size of 0.0281% of the current Chinese population.

So what is this "great number of Chinese people" that you speak of?

Stop trying to generalize what may or may not happen in the future. No one foresaw the sudden downfall of the once powerful USSR, but it happened anyway. The collapse of the PRC or Communist Party is by no means a collapse of the Chinese nation.
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 744,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
If people don't want independence nothing wrong with that either. Isn't the better of the two worlds the one that allows people to choose to change if they want to?

I cannot say that I do know for certain what the Central Plains are. I would hazard a guess that it is the steppe area that spawned nomads like the Huns and Mongols, but that is just a shot in the dark. Wherever they are though, I think you've hit on a problem with people instead of a democratic system. If people choose to go to war because they feel some historical accident gives them claim on their neighbor's land that is a problem inherent in the invaders not in a system that allows people to choose not to be dominated by that neighbor.
The central plains refer to the entire geographical area surrounding both the yellow river and yangtze river. It also referred to the entire area covered by Qin Shi Huang's empire (commonly regarded as the first actual Han empire)

I was first introduced to it by the many Chinese students I spoke to, whom were shocked that as a member of the diaspora, i did not know of it.

I later on studied ancient Chinese literature and poetry and noticed that there were many references to it.

according to them, the central plains were the original "middle kingdom", (an analogy would be Rome and the hills surrounding Rome before it became the Roman empire) until succeeding dynasties expanded to the present-day sized country we see on maps today, absorbing the Hun, the Xiongnu in the process.
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:15 AM
 
3,804 posts, read 6,173,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
The central plains refer to the entire geographical area surrounding both the yellow river and yangtze river. It also referred to the entire area covered by Qin Shi Huang's empire (commonly regarded as the first actual Han empire)

I was first introduced to it by the many Chinese students I spoke to, whom were shocked that as a member of the diaspora, i did not know of it.

I later on studied ancient Chinese literature and poetry and noticed that there were many references to it.

according to them, the central plains were the original "middle kingdom", (an analogy would be Rome and the hills surrounding Rome before it became the Roman empire) until succeeding dynasties expanded to the present-day sized country we see on maps today, absorbing the Hun, the Xiongnu in the process.
I was way off then. Thanks for enlightening me.
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Old 02-01-2015, 11:20 AM
 
4,361 posts, read 7,077,634 times
Reputation: 5216
Well, without authoritarian rule, the Three Gorges Dam (which displaced over 1 million residents from their homes), and China's immense $28 trillion, high-speed rail network, could not have been built.

In a democratic system, these projects would still be delayed under years of "environmental impact studies" and opposition by the "Sierra Club."
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:04 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,253,306 times
Reputation: 10141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePage View Post
How do you let one billion people do what they want? it would be a big mess !
Better keep them in check on daily basis
Yes, I think the Chinese are a hard working, educated and industrious people. Much like the Germans, Koreans and the Japanese, I think they will be successful no matter what type of government they have.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Taipei
8,865 posts, read 8,448,789 times
Reputation: 7414
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Yes, I think the Chinese are a hard working, educated and industrious people. Much like the Germans, Koreans and the Japanese, I think they will be successful no matter what type of government they have.


Sorry, couldn't help.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Russia
303 posts, read 255,419 times
Reputation: 78
What is a Western democracy? And why should she help everyone?

Just imagine that you are a doctor in the hospital and try to treat all of its universal "democracy." All patients one pill. Comes to you the patient who has a runny nose, you give him a pill that cures cancer, AIDS, Ebola, and a bunch of other diseases, after which the side effects are such that it would be better to stay with her for nothing, or he would have been treated. Break each offered the same pill, from which only detonate, but the problem will not be solved, as the leg was broken and left.

In the world, as in meitsine no universal methods of treatment and medicines. Nobody needs this idiotic democracy is a fraud. People are different, and the form of government they want too different. Many countries with monarchies Horad happy with each democracies. So that democracy, in which all is well this is nothing more than a tale for the uneducated.
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