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Several decades ago, the middle east was rather a stable region of the world mostly ruled by families, kings etc.
Eventually the region turned into war, countries like afghanistan de-evolve and ended up being the disaster they're today
Other places like Iraq were torn into pieces and now is on the brink of civil war due to the removal of Saddam hussein who kept the country stable with all the ethnic groups living in peace
Syria is a mess, two decades ago it was a rather prosperous society
Lebanon keeps periodically getting bombed and destroyed
it's obvious the west has a lot to answer for..... especially the UK and the US
in north africa they removed Gaddafi who was a buffer between africa and Europe, with him out of the equation europe is facing a tidal wave of africans flooding not only lybia but nearby italy.
Isn't America a bit of a toxic influence in Europe?
I mean Europe has gone THRU HELL thanks to the US influence in the region, and it seems its gonna continue going thru hell for decades to come!
It's not that simple. You have entirely two different dynamics at work. Good or bad, we disagree with theirs as ardently as they disagree with ours. Certain customs in the middle east are unthinkable to us as some of ous are to them.
We are viewed as infidels (along with most of the world) for a lack purity and virtue. We believe in freedoms that challenge our own morals as much as those who oppose us do. However, we view some of their laws as barbaric and I there we find the rub.
And neither side will back down. A stalemate. The difference being is that they are murdering thousands ( our view) while they view it as a cleansing of sorts in the name of god. Us? We talk people to death. No matter, the cost in human lives compels us from time to time to "meddle" and we do so selectively.
As it relates to the middle east we are all up for grabs for Israel and yet, Rwandan's (tutsi's) couldn't get a phone call from Clinton let alone any help in 1994 and in 90 days 800,000 Rwandan's, mostly Tutsi, we're murdered, extinguished, etc. and the west hardly made a sound.
Deeeeeep down I don't believe many in this world likes killing but many make a steady practice of it. In the end,I think the US gets it right more than they get it wrong whether reactively or proactively enabled, we usually get it right r "more right" than not.
We are now facing yet, another, crisis in the middle east in Syria. Thousands are being killed. Maybe a million so far in this "civil" war (talk about your oxymorons?). Yet, the US is sitting pretty much sitting on the bench. My guess? Much like the 19 TRILLION dollar debt, the president is going to stall and kick these problems down the road for the next president and lt that president take the heat. Probably a good strategy as it will help the media to make it easy on him and a new library will be built....sigh.....
So, in this case, Syria is morebSyria's doing than not, we won't depose him, and we won't enable rebels who will go back to killing us when their war games with Syria are through. The president has learned tha tif nothing else. He's probably going to let them grind each other down like we did when Iran and Iraq were going at it. In the end, the middle east hates each other almost as much as they hate us.
While cold and calculated much like Stalin and his tactics, it does work. Having ISIS and Syria grind on each othe and Iraq awhile actually works in our favor over time. You just have to make sure they keep grinding each other down at a faster rate than intervention. So far, not as quickly as some would hope or like.
That pacifism is a choice unto itself and as much as you and others like you would like to point he finger at the US, you can't this time. No one is forcing ISIS to pull a trigger. They have themselves and the gain of loosely guarded US armament once held by a deposed Iraq army to thank for their continued success. Convenient though when you consider we want them to keep grinding each other down, wouldn't you say? We just can't take credit for it. Its a rare moment we can point to that has a positive long term affect and outcome directly attributable to this president regarding "US involvement" in the region.
Golf clap.
Even incompetence has its place. Today, it's home is Syria. And it is not always the US' fault when things go bad there. Much like George Bush 2.0. You can't keep blaming him for everything bad in your life although some still try.
The US doesn't want a peaceful Middle East
The US doesn't want a unified and successful euro zone
The US doesn't want a strong China
The US definitely don't want the Koreas to reunite
Keep these in mind when thinking about US foreign policies. Under all the pretty slogan of freedom, democracy, if you really check its track history and policy consistency, all that The US did and does is always for the benefit of nobody but itself.
Even with Bushs apology about the Iraqi war, he only felt sorry for the US soldiers and veterans, not a word did he mention the remorse towards those 10,000 Iraqi civilians who died because He made a "oops, I misjudged the outside threat" mistake. Lives of people outside means absolutely nothing to Washington.
I remember on the eve of the first so-called Gulf War back in 1990 then Senator Bob Dole literally spelled it out quite plainly on the Senate floor and national television, "We are there for one reason: O - I - L."
The Islamic world has been in turmoil since the 8th century, long before the founding of USA. prior to the internet, insane violent radicals were limited to their small area. Now they can spread their ideas world wide. Those who would normally hide their radical beliefs now feel their beliefs are justified because they've found online so many who share their beliefs. Not only do they share such beliefs, they also share ways of killing. They're able to perform horrible acts because they feel justified in their beliefs and are surrounded by others of like minds. Sort of like Nazi soldiers. Many of the worst Nazi soldiers were once good honest men and women caught up in an insane movement. They too felt their actions were rational and justified. However, after their defeat and cold hard reality set in, many realized the horror they'd done. The truly insane continued to believe it was good. Like the radical Muslim movement, the Nazi movement found willing supporters in other countries. Some went only so far as to voice support, some supported silently through acts of sabotage or espionage. Some openly beat and executed their Jewish neighbors to welcome the Nazis. We've seen Muslims in parts of Africa, Asia, Europe, and other parts openly align with ISIS and commit acts of murder in the name of ISIS and Allah. If this were a national movement, it would be a world war. But no nation makes claim to these groups though their numbers rival small nation's military. Their goals are obvious. First, take control of the local population through terror and murder, offer captured women and young girls as brides or slaves to willing fighters, brainwash young men to their ideology, train these young men to be the next generation of fighters, take control of enough land to establish an Islamic nation, call for likeminded Muslims around the world to immigrate to this new Islamic caliphate nation, expand borders into other areas, repeat until either their version of Islam rules the world under strict Sharia law or the world unites and wipes them off the face of the earth.
You think the US didn't interfere in Syria? No open bombing but didn't refrain from all the support for the rebels in order to take advantage of the situation.
No, the U.S. didn't really intervene. They do have some interests in the Syria, but the U.S. has done basically nothing to influence the current situation. Even Europe has done more in Syria. Russia and the EU are far more involved in Syria than the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli
It is a punching bag because it's exceeding annoying. It applies double standard everywhere and sticks it's nose where it doesn't belong all the time.
And my point is that the U.S. will get blamed regardless, because it's the world's superpower. You're blaming it right now for Syria when it didn't even get involved in Syria. Obviously if the U.S. had intervened militarily you would be blaming the U.S. too.
The Mideast is a craphole of conflict, and has been like this long before the present, and long before the U.S. was a dominant actor in the region.
And yes, the U.S. has done some exceedingly stupid things in the Middle East. But the point is that the U.S. will get blamed regardless of what it does or doesn't do, because it's the only global hegemon.
The US doesn't want a peaceful Middle East
The US doesn't want a unified and successful euro zone
The US doesn't want a strong China
The US definitely don't want the Koreas to reunite
None of this is true.
The U.S. (and indeed the entire developed world) has strong economic and geopolitical interests in a peaceful Middle East, a strong Eurozone, a healthy China, and a reunited Korea.
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stronger gear and cheaper I believe