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Old 06-10-2018, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,427 posts, read 1,655,655 times
Reputation: 2090

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
That's actually a fair point. I was only going by the original list, but China should be there as well as it's an even bigger player than Russia.
One thing I find interesting is that the G8 are pretty much the same group of countries that formed the 8 nation alliance in the boxer rebellion.

G8 (1997-2014)
Canada
France
Germany
Italy
Japan
Russia
United Kingdom
United States of America

Boxer Rebellion (1899-1901)
Austria-Hungary (no longer exists)
France
Germany
Italy
Japan
Russia
United Kingdom (Canada was a British colony)
United States of America
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
9,542 posts, read 10,699,717 times
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India is a democracy and has a larger economy than several of the G7 countries. I guess because it's not developed. That's the only reason.

Australia, South Korea and Spain are also developed and have almost as large economies as Canada on a nominal basis which is in the G7.

Last edited by deneb78; 06-10-2018 at 04:06 PM..
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:08 PM
 
2,123 posts, read 1,007,714 times
Reputation: 526
I would say yes, economic wise, it has been replaced by g20 a long time ago.
I suggest you read further the agenda of g7... they deal with topics such as gender equality and climate change, which are unfortunately not topics that trump is interested in.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:17 AM
 
13 posts, read 2,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Russia was kicked out of the G7 because it invaded Crimea. Also I am unsure if it should really be there any ways. The G7 is a group of democratic nations and relatively free economies while Russia is a de-facto dictatorship and the largest corporations are basically run and/or owned by the Kremlin.

As far as dissolving the G7 and just having the G20, that will never happen. It's akin to getting rid of the 5 permanent seats at the UN........why would the US/RU/Fr/Ch/UK give up that kind of power? Same for the G7. With the permanent UN Security Council, it is the most exclusive club in town. Just as the UN sets world political policy, the G7 effectively dictates world economic policy. Countries are like people, once they attain power they are loath to give it up.
Well, why US was not kicked out of the G7 because they invaded in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria?
Also for full information - in Russia the largest corporations belong to the state, but not the Kremlin...

Anyway, the Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov has said that having removed Russia from the "format of eight" once they have turned him into club on interests, like golf club. Have late come round. There have passed time and "seven" became the same remnant of the 20th century, as well as NATO. The real agenda is discussed in "a format of twenty". The attempt to remain exclusive members in promptly changing world wasn't successful.

Without Russia the format of G8 - is dead. Trump and all others understands it.

Russia has drawn conclusions and has gone further. To come back not in our interests. China and other partners won't understand us. Now mutually beneficial cooperation happens on fields of G20, SCO and BRICS. And the Russian Federation doesn't close for anybody doors. If the West is ready to equal cooperation, welcome. Well, or let continue to play golf the seven, the world will do without them.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:21 AM
 
2,123 posts, read 1,007,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhomor View Post
Well, why US was not kicked out of the G7 because they invaded in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria?
Also for full information - in Russia the largest corporations belong to the state, but not the Kremlin...

Anyway, the Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov has said that having removed Russia from the "format of eight" once they have turned him into club on interests, like golf club. Have late come round. There have passed time and "seven" became the same remnant of the 20th century, as well as NATO. The real agenda is discussed in "a format of twenty". The attempt to remain exclusive members in promptly changing world wasn't successful.

Without Russia the format of G8 - is dead. Trump and all others understands it.

Russia has drawn conclusions and has gone further. To come back not in our interests. China and other partners won't understand us. Now mutually beneficial cooperation happens on fields of G20, SCO and BRICS. And the Russian Federation doesn't close for anybody doors. If the West is ready to equal cooperation, welcome. Well, or let continue to play golf the seven, the world will do without them.
If the U.S. had to be kicked out because of military intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, then France and the UK had to be removed as well...
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
7,759 posts, read 2,602,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I'm no fan of Russia's policies and have criticized many of them on CD, both internal and external ones. However, they remain an important player on the world stage. Isolating them further is counterproductive.

You're right. I don't expect countries to willingly surrender power as it would only weaken them on the global stage.
China and India should also be given seats at the table.

The truth is that the world order is changing and we may see some countries displaced later this century in favour of the emerging nations.

World Economy - Wikipedia

As for Putin's Russia it's been excluded for good reason, including the invasion of Georgia and the invasion of Crimea and the shooting down of flight MH-17, as well as Russian involvement and threats in relation to Syria and the use of nerve agents.

Russia has also had a hand in hacking and indeed tampering in important western elections, whilst the constant assassination of Putin opponenents and journalist have also not helped the Russian case, neither has the Winter Olympic doping scandal.

Last edited by Brave New World; 06-11-2018 at 06:36 AM..
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:10 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
6,654 posts, read 9,190,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
India is a democracy and has a larger economy than several of the G7 countries. I guess because it's not developed. That's the only reason.

Australia, South Korea and Spain are also developed and have almost as large economies as Canada on a nominal basis which is in the G7.
India is probably the next logical candidate, even though like you said they are not really developed. Still, they already have one of the world's largest economies plus they are a Democracy so I would let them in.

The Untied States and Japan would certainly be willing to sponsor India, both have growing economic and defense links with India. The British and Canada as members of the Commonwealth would sponsor India as well.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:25 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
6,654 posts, read 9,190,426 times
Reputation: 5755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhomor View Post
Well, why US was not kicked out of the G7 because they invaded in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria?
Also for full information - in Russia the largest corporations belong to the state, but not the Kremlin...

Anyway, the Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov has said that having removed Russia from the "format of eight" once they have turned him into club on interests, like golf club. Have late come round. There have passed time and "seven" became the same remnant of the 20th century, as well as NATO. The real agenda is discussed in "a format of twenty". The attempt to remain exclusive members in promptly changing world wasn't successful.

Without Russia the format of G8 - is dead. Trump and all others understands it.

Russia has drawn conclusions and has gone further. To come back not in our interests. China and other partners won't understand us. Now mutually beneficial cooperation happens on fields of G20, SCO and BRICS. And the Russian Federation doesn't close for anybody doors. If the West is ready to equal cooperation, welcome. Well, or let continue to play golf the seven, the world will do without them.
Yes, it is in Russia's interests regardless of what you say publicly. It may sound good to say we do not want to be in the G-8 but in reality a nation should have as many links to foreign nations as it can.

Right now, most of Russia's eggs are in one basket, with China. Hopefully Russia and China stays friends forever, but one thing history has shown us is that things change. Russia also has good ties with India. But it makes sense to have other options, say with the Americans, with the Japanese and with the Europeans. In this way if things someday go bad with China, Russia will have other friends.
.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:08 PM
 
1,173 posts, read 682,540 times
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The G7 opted to become more exclusive in a world that is increasingly multipolar, so its declining relevance is no surprise to anyone.

1. The group controls a diminishing, minority share of the global GDP (compared to the circa 85% enjoyed by the G20).
2. It cannot be considered truly international if China is not a member, and the exclusion of Russia was probably a mistake.
3. The Anglo-American realm is now pivoting against many of its ideological objectives, from border policies to climate change.





I think there are competent arguments both for and against Russia's inclusion in the forum.

Ultimately though, whatever the objective truth regarding the Ukraine, I would argue that the decision to exclude it is more appropriate to the unipolar era, when only a handful of powers directed the flow of the geopolitical narrative.

That was easy to do when news sources were subject to stringent control. Now the international community can appraise the complexities of geopolitical events from a multipolar lens, criticize diplomatic double standards and so on.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:19 PM
 
13 posts, read 2,351 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post

As for Putin's Russia it's been excluded for good reason, including the invasion of Georgia and the invasion of Crimea and the shooting down of flight MH-17, as well as Russian involvement and threats in relation to Syria and the use of nerve agents.

Russia has also had a hand in hacking and indeed tampering in important western elections, whilst the constant assassination of Putin opponenents and journalist have also not helped the Russian case, neither has the Winter Olympic doping scandal.
So is the reason were, these are unproven charges Russia and fakes. As flight MH-17, chemical weapon in Syria, nerve agents.

Also because Russia pacified aggressive neighbors. Georgia has attacked Ossetia and the Russian peace-keepers - Russia has given a kick on a bum to aggressive Georgians. Russia has provided safety of holding a referendum to people of the Crimea from the Ukrainian radical nationalists.

Look like for me, western democrats big liars and have lost reality.
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