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I started watching the Netflix show Mindhunter. I'd read John Douglass's books about the early days of the FBI profiling unit, and while the show is a fictionalized version, it's still pretty interesting.
The show takes place in the 1970s. Distracting to me is the fact that the show's writers probably are young and did not live back then, and so the characters use phrases and words that someone in the 70s would not have said. For example, it's a pet peeve to me, one I know I cannot fix, that in recent years people have used "begs the question" to mean "raises the question" to the extent that it is becoming acceptable usage.
NOTE: If this confuses you, then maybe you need a quick lesson on what question begging originally meant:
My point is that no one in the 1970s would have used "it begs the question" in that way, but someone does in the show. Other phrases I've noticed are "No, I'm good" when a character was asked if they wanted coffee. That didn't come around until the 90s, I think. There were a few others that I caught that have escaped my knowledge, but basically, the writers are using 2020-Speak in a show set in the 1970s.
A widely-pointed-out example of this type of writing error was the use of the phrase "Masters of the Universe" in the movie Titanic. No one would have used that phrase in 1912.
This is of interest to me because my unfinished novel is set in 1859. I am likely guilty of the same thing because I have no idea what words or phrases were in use in NJ back then.
So, I'm just putting this out there. Do other folks notice this, and do other writers struggle with using language appropriate to the time period in which their work is set?
About 30 years ago, I was set to play a role in a regional theater company production that was set in the 1920s. The play's director was also the playwright, and we got along just fine until I questioned his use of the word "kooky" in the dialogue spoken by one of the characters--an elderly woman.
The first time that I ever heard that word was in the late '50s-early '60s, and I told him that I thought it would be very unlikely for an elderly woman of the 1920s to have used that word. He went almost-berserk from my diplomatically-phrased question, and it was all downhill from there... until I withdrew from the cast.
Merriam-Webster states that the first known use of that word was circa 1959, so clearly I was right and he was wrong, but rather than continue to deal with his radical mood swings, it was just easier to walk away.
In addition to the use of words that are inappropriate for an era, TV shows and movies frequently use objects that are inappropriate for the timeframe. I am currently spending some time watching the serialized video production of Stephen King's novel 11-22-63. The scenes in which the protagonist travels back in time go as far back as 1960, before culminating with the JFK assassination on 11-22-63. The use of some 1965 cars in some of the scenes is something that would probably only be noticed by older people like me, so I don't consider those inappropriate cars to be a major issue, but there is an inappropriate product usage in the production that should be noticed by most people, and as a result I find it puzzling that the production folks included it.
I am referring to the production's use of a very large (39 gallon size) green plastic lawn & leaf bag in a scene where a crime scene is being cleaned-up. Yes, plastic trash bags existed in 1963, but they were not yet common and were just of the smaller (kitchen trash can) size. The use of extremely large plastic lawn and leaf bags did not take place until many years later.
Also, I can recall the use of a recent-model air-conditioned all-stainless steel subway in the film Bridge of Spies. The film is set in the '60s, but that type of subway car didn't begin to come into use (on a limited basis) until the mid-70s.
Last edited by Retriever; 06-12-2022 at 10:30 AM..
About 30 years ago, I was set to play a role in a regional theater company production that was set in the 1920s. The play's director was also the playwright, and we got along just fine until I questioned his use of the word "kooky" in the dialogue spoken by one of the characters--an elderly woman.
The first time that I ever heard that word was in the late '50s-early '60s, and I told him that I thought it would be very unlikely for an elderly woman of the 1920s to have used that word. He went almost-berserk from my diplomatically-phrased question, and it was all downhill from there... until I withdrew from the cast.
Merriam-Webster states that the first known use of that word was circa 1959, so clearly I was right and he was wrong, but rather than continue to deal with his radical mood swings, it was just easier to walk away.
In addition to the use of words that are inappropriate for an era, TV shows and movies frequently use objects that are inappropriate for the timeframe. I am currently spending some time watching the serialized video production of Stephen King's novel 11-22-63. The scenes in which the protagonist travels back in time go as far back as 1960, before culminating with the JFK assassination on 11-22-63. The use of some 1965 cars in some of the scenes is something that would probably only be noticed by older people like me, so I don't consider those inappropriate cars to be a major issue, but there is an inappropriate product usage in the production that should be noticed by most people, and as a result I find it puzzling that the production folks included it.
I am referring to the production's use of a very large (39 gallon size) green plastic lawn & leaf bag in a scene where a crime scene is being cleaned-up. Yes, plastic trash bags existed in 1963, but they were not yet common and were just of the smaller (kitchen trash can) size. The use of extremely large plastic lawn and leaf bags did not take place until many years later.
Also, I can recall the use of a recent-model air-conditioned all-stainless steel subway in the film Bridge of Spies. The film is set in the '60s, but that type of subway car didn't come into use (on a limited basis) until the mid-70s.
HA, I didn't notice that in Bridge of Spies, but good catch.
My bf noticed in Mindhunter that there's a Pepsi machine, made to look vintage but probably not authentic, in the visitor's room at a prison in one scene, and it's not likely that the machine would have been there or would have had the PEPSI logo emblazoned across the top the way it did, but hey, product placement brings in dollars.
And it's funny, I was just thinking when some conversation came up about trash bags recently that younger people don't know that we didn't have plastic garbage bags until relatively recently. I was born in 1958, so grew up in the 1960s, and I know we always used brown paper bags from the grocery store (because there were no plastic grocery bags yet) in the kitchen garbage can, and then they got folded on the top and put in the galvanized metal garbage cans to go out on the road. I don't think we used plastic garbage bags until the late 60s, early 70s. Definitely not lawn and leaf bags, since back then we raked the leaves into a big pile and burned them.
My favorite author, Sharon Kay Penman, who sadly passed away a year or so ago, was a historical fiction author who enjoyed and acknowledged when her readers pointed out errors in her novels. For example, one reader pointed out that a character was wearing a velvet dress two centuries before velvet was invented. I would have never noticed that.
I was a costumer, so I notice clothing and makeup anachronisms in nearly every period piece.
I read a book in which a 1920s cowhand used the term "out of sight," just as a hippie would 40 years later. An anachronism? Nope, the book was written in 1923.
I was a costumer, so I notice clothing and makeup anachronisms in nearly every period piece.
I read a book in which a 1920s cowhand used the term "out of sight," just as a hippie would 40 years later. An anachronism? Nope, the book was written in 1923.
Interesting!
I do notice the blue eye shadow, heavy eyeliner, white lipstick, and fake lashes on 1960s western shows like Big Valley.
I do notice the blue eye shadow, heavy eyeliner, white lipstick, and fake lashes on 1960s western shows like Big Valley.
And perfect very white teeth, lol. I appreciate that now actors are showing bad and missing teeth appropriate to the era. Teeth make-up, lol. Probably most actors have blinding white veneers these days.
I do notice the blue eye shadow, heavy eyeliner, white lipstick, and fake lashes on 1960s western shows like Big Valley.
Speaking of Westerns from the '50s & '60s, I can recall one of the many times that our TV repairman was at the house (back in "The Good Old Days", when TVs needed to be repaired several times per year and needed to have the pricey picture tube replaced every 2 or 3 years...) and after he got the TV functioning again, he pointed-out a jet contrail in the sky above the characters on a show depicting the late 19th Century.
Speaking of Westerns from the '50s & '60s, I can recall one of the many times that our TV repairman was at the house (back in "The Good Old Days", when TVs needed to be repaired several times per year and needed to have the pricey picture tube replaced every 2 or 3 years...) and after he got the TV functioning again, he pointed-out a jet contrail in the sky above the characters on a show depicting the late 19th Century.
My bf noticed in Mindhunter that there's a Pepsi machine, made to look vintage but probably not authentic, in the visitor's room at a prison in one scene, and it's not likely that the machine would have been there or would have had the PEPSI logo emblazoned across the top the way it did, but hey, product placement brings in dollars.
Pepsi machines certainly existed in the 1970s. I know because I used them. Having not seen Mindhunter, I can't say whether their version was accurate for its period or not.
I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, but I do notice when someone says something that's not right for the period. But what comes to my mind is not just one sentence, but an entire movie. There are two movies named Midway, one made in 1976 and the other in 2019, both of which are about the Battle of Midway in World War II. I am a huge fan of both of them. But it's kind of weird, the 1976 version feels like actors from the 1970s portraying characters from the 1940s. But the 2019 version feels like people who were actually in the 1940s. I can't think of any specifics about this, but it's definitely a feeling I get when I watch these films.
Pepsi machines certainly existed in the 1970s. I know because I used them. Having not seen Mindhunter, I can't say whether their version was accurate for its period or not.
I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, but I do notice when someone says something that's not right for the period. But what comes to my mind is not just one sentence, but an entire movie. There are two movies named Midway, one made in 1976 and the other in 2019, both of which are about the Battle of Midway in World War II. I am a huge fan of both of them. But it's kind of weird, the 1976 version feels like actors from the 1970s portraying characters from the 1940s. But the 2019 version feels like people who were actually in the 1940s. I can't think of any specifics about this, but it's definitely a feeling I get when I watch these films.
Hmmm. I know I've seen the older Midway, but I don't remember enough about it.
Sounds as if the second version of the movie made a bigger effort to be authentic.
I saw another oopsie tonight on the same show. A store with a big red-digit digital clock display sign that alternated between time and temperature on mounted supports in the parking lot. While digital clocks were around in the 1970s, that particularly type displayed high on a sign structure is from much later.
I am nit-picking here, because they DO an awful lot to make it look like the mid-70s. Clothes, cars, phones, furniture.
Anyway, this was originally more about the language used, and I should focus on that.
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