Anyone have success getting an easement from the Forest Service? (Dubois: sale, mortgages)

[schotzie910]

I'm thinking this is probably a pipe dream....

We are starting the process of building on our property in Dubois. We are bordered on two sides by the Shoshone Nat'l Forest. The back of the property has the current forest access road running parallel to it.

Ideally, we would LOVE to utilize this road for our driveway access, vs the neighborhood road - mostly because access will just be easier (not to mention cost effective). It's

Is it a pipe dream to believe that the government might actually let us do this?

[branDcalf]

Hard to say. You might luck out.

Trying to decipher the rhyme or reason to decisions made by a large gov't agency can be amusing. But it's rarely predictable.

[nm9stheham]

Just keep in mind that the Shoshone Forest land there is used for cattle grazing in spring through fall. Which means you'll have to open/close 2 gates each time you enter or leave the property; one gate into/out of the forest land and the 2nd into/out of your property. It'll get real old, real fast.

Plus, in winter, how will you plow the forest land lane? I would expect that will not be allowed. So using the present road is the practical solution. You may want to angle across the lot and then double back near the house to keep the driveway slope minimized.

[nm9stheham]

And BTW, as far as I know... that lane is open to highway licensed vehicles. And it does not appear on the 'seasonal' list for Shoshone, on their MVUM (motor vehicle use map... which you should be able to download from their site) and is FR 545. So, theoretically, it is open year 'round. But, the cattle & gates issue, and the probable no-plowing restriction, remain the issues IMHO.

[schotzie910]

From what I can tell from my limited research, we could get a snow removal permit and would probably have to pay to keep that portion of the road up, to some extent. But the distance from where the county road ends and the SFR begins to our access would be fairly minimal. We'd have to pay to remove all the snow from the massive driveway from the main road anyway. I think it would balance out.

Gates wouldn't bother me, I'm used to them!

So far, no word from the Forest People so we are thinking it's a pipe dream anyway.

[paintersspouse]

We and several other homeowners access our property over a Forest Service road. We pay for snow plowing. Several years ago the contract with the Forest Service that allowed this changed and became quite onerous so you should check that out. Luckily the County agreed to care for the road though not the snow plowing and we did not have to sign the contract.

Gates are a good thing because when you start caring for and using that road, especially plowing the general public does as well. You can't stop them. They will even park on the road and block your use.

[nm9stheham]

Originally Posted by schotzie910

From what I can tell from my limited research, we could get a snow removal permit and would probably have to pay to keep that portion of the road up, to some extent. But the distance from where the county road ends and the SFR begins to our access would be fairly minimal. We'd have to pay to remove all the snow from the massive driveway from the main road anyway. I think it would balance out.

Gates wouldn't bother me, I'm used to them!

So far, no word from the Forest People so we are thinking it's a pipe dream anyway.

Oh it is going to take a while if it is out of the ordinary.... or requires a decision that can be contested. I hope this does not be come Special Use permit.... and wide open to public comment. At least this is not for a general, wide use access permit. But I know that SNRA does not allow winter plowing to some of the ranches/homes on the FR's.

Does it effect your house siting much either way?

It will be interesting to here the outcome. FR 513 is the access road to the Long View area lots and is not not plowed in winter, so no wheeled vehicle winter access for any of the very few places there, just tracked vehicles like snowmobiles. That would be a lot more general access, and a lot longer distance, than your short distance.

[nm9stheham]

BTW, forgive me, but I'll throw one more thing out there on this matter. Long term, think about how this may impact the sale of the place. (And don't say you will never sell..... life throws crazy curves at us all.) Any oddball access arrangement will drive off some potential buyers. IMHO, this applies to both the gates (my wife's arthritis would preclude her doing that), and the permit complications/renewal process will be seen as a burden by many. There is not guarantee whatsoever that Shoshone NF use policies in the future will allow this, even if you get the permissions today. Plus, banks often look at property access in making decision on mortgages; anything odd can throw a monkey wrench into financing a new buyer's mortgage.

So, even if this works out for now, I'd suggest planning out the siting of everything, like underground utilities, septic, waterline, and garage access, to accommodate a driveway built entirely on the lot in the future. I.e., leave room for it, and don't 'paint yourself into a corner'.

[schotzie910]

Originally Posted by nm9stheham

BTW, forgive me, but I'll throw one more thing out there on this matter. Long term, think about how this may impact the sale of the place. (And don't say you will never sell..... life throws crazy curves at us all.) Any oddball access arrangement will drive off some potential buyers. IMHO, this applies to both the gates (my wife's arthritis would preclude her doing that), and the permit complications/renewal process will be seen as a burden by many. There is not guarantee whatsoever that Shoshone NF use policies in the future will allow this, even if you get the permissions today. Plus, banks often look at property access in making decision on mortgages; anything odd can throw a monkey wrench into financing a new buyer's mortgage.

So, even if this works out for now, I'd suggest planning out the siting of everything, like underground utilities, septic, waterline, and garage access, to accommodate a driveway built entirely on the lot in the future. I.e., leave room for it, and don't 'paint yourself into a corner'.

All good points! The way we plan to have the house situated, it would be very easy to bring a driveway down to the road in the future. Or now if that's what it comes down to. LOL! Either way, we will have to have some kind of easement / permission from the NFS since to build on the lot, we would have to come in from that direction with the equipment, as I'm not sure they would make it up the incline otherwise. The issue is the actual road frontage of this lot (community road, not NFS road) is very tiny, and the angle you would have to turn would just not be doable with a large truck of any description. So if the gubment won't help us, we may end up having to beg and plead with our neighbors to swing up through their property, at least for the construction window.

The good news is we have all winter to figure this out.

[schotzie910]

Originally Posted by paintersspouse

We and several other homeowners access our property over a Forest Service road. We pay for snow plowing. Several years ago the contract with the Forest Service that allowed this changed and became quite onerous so you should check that out. Luckily the County agreed to care for the road though not the snow plowing and we did not have to sign the contract.

Gates are a good thing because when you start caring for and using that road, especially plowing the general public does as well. You can't stop them. They will even park on the road and block your use.

This sounds somewhat promising! You don't remember who you had to talk to to get this ball rolling, do you? They passed me off to someone who was supposed to email me back.

That was two weeks ago.