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In the book "The Russian Word For Snow" the child was named "Sned" because he was dropped at the orphanage on a snowy day.
Try going through life in an American middle school named "Sned" We love our kids too much to name them Sned or to be self indulgent when it comes to names.Or too experemental.
We like Barak Obama and now, it's a name we might use. But we're glad his mother used it first.
Just FYI, the Russian word for snow is снег snyeg, which, IMO, sounds even worse to American ears! Because Russians tend to devoice consonants at the end of words, the way it sounds spoken by a native Russian is snyek, which sounds like a twisted version of "snake" IMO.
I don't think anyone is arguing against changing a name if the reason is to prevent undue hardship.
(I initially failed to see the extra page in this thread - this is a response to thethreefoldme's post on page 14)
3fold, you are assuming a lot about other posters who have shared their reasons for changing their children's names.
How do you know that these parents do not honor their children's birth nationality and heritage? How can you imply that they do nothing to educate and inform their children about their birth countries' cultures and traditions? In my experience, most families who have adopted children internationally make a large effort to include these things in their children's lives.
Locally, there are classes each Saturday - "Chinese School" - attended by children of Chinese background, both children living with their birth families and children who were adopted from China. FRUA is an organization of families who have adopted children from Russia and Ukraine - they encourage families to sustain their children's original national heritage in a variety of ways.
In my own family, the parents of my young relatives who joined our family via adoption from Eastern Europe purchased traditional holiday clothing for their children in country, have a traditional EE Christmas dinner each year, are reinforcing their children's original language, have a flag of their children's birth country prominently displayed in their home, have all sorts of decorative and functional items from their children's original country in regular use, make
sure their children read folktales, hear music, and learn the history of their birth country. They loved their time in-country and consider their children's birth country beautiful, historic, friendly, and quite worthy in almost all ways (typical treatment of orphaned children with special needs excepted).
One of their children wants to return to visit when she is older; the other, given exactly the same exposure and reinforcement of her native traditions, has little interest in returning but reads copiously and is interested in the traditions and stories of her native land.
As for names, one child's name was not changed. The other child's name was modified to avoid teasing. Both children were okay with this, and the child whose name was changed knows that it can be changed back when they are grown, if this is their wish, and that they can change it back informally prior to that if they prefer. Both children are teens now - so far, no major problems have surfaced with either child. And few minor ones, for that matter!
Children, and people in general, are different. I think that also applies to those of us who in various ways are members of the adoption community. I think it would be wise to acknowledge and respect those differences, and to recognize that one-size-fits all views and assumptions, especially about other members of the adoption community, are likely to be major misfits for many.
How can you imply that they do nothing to educate and inform their children about their birth countries' cultures and traditions? In my experience, most families who have adopted children internationally make a large effort to include these things in their children's lives.
I am not addressing people who have made statements about their efforts in including such things, I have addressed people who have made statements about their efforts in suppressing/erasing/demeaning such things. Referring to a child's original name as unusual is certainly not honoring it.
Quote:
Children, and people in general, are different. I think that also applies to those of us who in various ways are members of the adoption community. I think it would be wise to acknowledge and respect those differences, and to recognize that one-size-fits all views and assumptions, especially about other members of the adoption community, are likely to be major misfits for many.
I am not saying there is a one-size-fits all view anymore than you are & I have recognized many differences.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 09-18-2012 at 10:56 AM..
(I initially failed to see the extra page in this thread - this is a response to thethreefoldme's post on page 14)
3fold, you are assuming a lot about other posters who have shared their reasons for changing their children's names.
How do you know that these parents do not honor their children's birth nationality and heritage? How can you imply that they do nothing to educate and inform their children about their birth countries' cultures and traditions? In my experience, most families who have adopted children internationally make a large effort to include these things in their children's lives.
Locally, there are classes each Saturday - "Chinese School" - attended by children of Chinese background, both children living with their birth families and children who were adopted from China. FRUA is an organization of families who have adopted children from Russia and Ukraine - they encourage families to sustain their children's original national heritage in a variety of ways.
In my own family, the parents of my young relatives who joined our family via adoption from Eastern Europe purchased traditional holiday clothing for their children in country, have a traditional EE Christmas dinner each year, are reinforcing their children's original language, have a flag of their children's birth country prominently displayed in their home, have all sorts of decorative and functional items from their children's original country in regular use, make
sure their children read folktales, hear music, and learn the history of their birth country. They loved their time in-country and consider their children's birth country beautiful, historic, friendly, and quite worthy in almost all ways (typical treatment of orphaned children with special needs excepted).
One of their children wants to return to visit when she is older; the other, given exactly the same exposure and reinforcement of her native traditions, has little interest in returning but reads copiously and is interested in the traditions and stories of her native land.
As for names, one child's name was not changed. The other child's name was modified to avoid teasing. Both children were okay with this, and the child whose name was changed knows that it can be changed back when they are grown, if this is their wish, and that they can change it back informally prior to that if they prefer. Both children are teens now - so far, no major problems have surfaced with either child. And few minor ones, for that matter!
Children, and people in general, are different. I think that also applies to those of us who in various ways are members of the adoption community. I think it would be wise to acknowledge and respect those differences, and to recognize that one-size-fits all views and assumptions, especially about other members of the adoption community, are likely to be major misfits for many.
This raises some excellent points Craig. When my daughter was young I was "Adoption PC to a fault".
Taking Korean classes with her, visiting Korean neighborhoods, dining in Korean neighborhoods. Etc.
I painted a beautiful name montage for her wall with Tae Hee in Korean characters and Western letters connected to her name, the one we gave her. It's in the closet now. She doesn't want it on the wall.
No one knows that in the beginning, I did DID all of this. My daughter is at sixteen,wants nothing to do with Korea, her Korean name or the culture. What exactly am I supposed to do? She a typical sixteen year old with all that this entails.
She can not stand it when Korean people come up to her and act as though she is some how "Theirs" or a possession of the Korean community. She is not. She is ours.
She has also faced rejection for being adopted from members of the Korean communiity.Anyone interested can read about it under the thread, "Bias..." My daughter is just not thrilled with things Korean at this age.
Not Korean culture, people foods, (which are mostly meat and we are Vegetarians) or names.
She does want to adopt a child when she is older. The country? Ukraine. Her names plans to change it.
Can anyone accept that there could be differences in opinions among adoptees and rather honoring a culture, we should honor our children and their feelings.
I do my best to we that. And so do all of the parents who I am close to, adoptive or not. as Bruce Springsteen said "WE TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN!"
This raises some excellent points Craig. When my daughter was young I was "Adoption PC to a fault".
Taking Korean classes with her, visiting Korean neighborhoods, dining in Korean neighborhoods. Etc.
I painted a beautiful name montage for her wall with Tae Hee in Korean characters and Western letters connected to her name, the one we gave her. It's in the closet now. She doesn't want it on the wall.
No one knows that in the beginning, I did DID all of this. My daughter is at sixteen,wants nothing to do with Korea, her Korean name or the culture. What exactly am I supposed to do? She a typical sixteen year old with all that this entails.
She can not stand it when Korean people come up to her and act as though she is some how "Theirs" or a possession of the Korean community. She is not. She is ours.
She has also faced rejection for being adopted from members of the Korean communiity.Anyone interested can read about it under the thread, "Bias..." My daughter is just not thrilled with things Korean at this age.
Not Korean culture, people foods, (which are mostly meat and we are Vegetarians) or names.
She does want to adopt a child when she is older. The country? Ukraine. Her names plans to change it.
Can anyone accept that there could be differences in opinions among adoptees and rather honoring a culture, we should honor our children and their feelings.
I do my best to we that. And so do all of the parents who I am close to, adoptive or not. as Bruce Springsteen said "WE TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN!"
]I did read that post, something that quite a frew adopted Koreans experience. They can end uup feeling "neither here nor there:" - neither one or the other.
Some Korean adoptees say the only people they really feel comfortable with are other Korean adoptees. There are quite a large number of blogs out there by Korean adoptees.
Can anyone accept that there could be differences in opinions among adoptees and rather honoring a culture, we should honor our children and their feelings.
Of course, if your daughter expressed that her name felt unusual to her & requested it to be changed to a name of your choosing before or when she was adopted then I apologize. If she did not, then I don't see how you were honoring her feelings. It is very hard for children to lose nearly everything familiar to them, especially their names.
Can anyone accept that there could be differences in opinions among adoptees and rather honoring a culture, we should honor our children and their feelings.
I'm not sure how anyone has not been honoring your child's feelings. Many of us in this thread are the adult counterparts to your daughter. She might be "yours," but she is also an individual and an adopted person like many of us.
In the same post in which you made the comment above, you asked what you can do regarding the fact that your daughter seems to feel very angry and disconnected from her Korean heritage. While there has been some heated discussion on this thread, you do have several adult adoptees at your disposal right now. We might be able to offer some insight into the adoptee experience that perhaps you had not considered. If you are willing to honor our perspective as your daughter's adult counterparts, there could be an opportunity for an engaging discussion.
I've given your question some thought and it is my feeling that my comments here are still on-topic as names fall into the mix. Some insight into how we process our names--original and adoptive--during different life stages might inform how some adoptive parents go into the naming process from the beginning. I'm a domestic adoptee so my experience has had some similarities and differences to your daughter's. One thing I can say is that 16-years-old can be a tough age for some adoptees. This is the time in development when a person is attempting to discover or confirm an identity for themselves that is separate from their parents (i.e. she is trying to be her own person instead of being "yours"). For an adoptee, there are added challenges in making those personal discoveries as there are a few extra life-experience layers piled on top of the usual teenaged angst. Your daughter might be feeling confused. Is she Korean (Tae Hee)? Is she American (name you gave her)? How does it all fit together? I can imagine an international adoptee feeling angry and wanting to disassociate from his or her cultural background after having been raised in a different culture. At her age, she might feel that it would be a heck of a lot easier if she had shared your cultural background from the beginning of her life instead of joining it already in progress. Such is the nature of being an adoptee.
What's that expression about protesting too much? It is also a lot easier to "hate" or blast something than it is to admit that you feel confusion about it. Adoptees can be really good at this emotional deflection. It's a way to protect ourselves from some of the more challenging emotions that arise as we mature and gain a fuller understanding of our adoption experiences. As her mom, you are in an amazing position to provide unconditional love and support as she works this all through. Perhaps now might a good time to bring back some of the "Adoption PC" stuff you attempted when she was younger. Instead of accepting her disassociation, you might want to help her embrace Tae Hee into her identity. If you express an interest in the whole of her identity and her original culture, it might help her to feel safe and supported while figuring out how that part of her narrative fits into the identity already established for her in your family. It's worth a try.
I think the insistence that Sheena must be doing something wrong is played out. Can we please keep the threads from coming back to Sheena and her daughter? She has stated very clearly that she is not interested in your advice, and I am tired of cleaning up arguments, personal attacks, and gossip parties. Please just drop it and focus on something else.
If someone does not want to engage in these conversations, they should not continue to post on a public forum that encourages discussion. Does it violate TOS to give on-topic advice or disagree with someone?
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