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I agree. Barring some really good reason I haven't heard yet, I don't think birth certs should be changed. And I don't think people should be routinely denied access to their original records.
A meeting of the minds.
The interesting thing is that there are a lot of us out here (original parents, adoptees, some adoptive parents) who are actively working in our states of residence to have the laws changed so that ALL adoptees will have equal access to their factual birth records. And we are often accused of being "anti-adoption" and "anti-child" and "anti-adoptive parents" and all kinds of other *anti* things simply because we are calling for truth and honesty within a system that is neither truthful or honest. I find it interesting that trying to change a inequitable system means we are "anti" it as a concept.
We are actually pro-adoptee and feel that adoptees deserve to be treated equally to non-adoptees. We believe that the adoption industry should be more transparent and empower the adoptee more than it does now. Denying us access to our original names and birth records is not in our best interests, In fact, these practices imply that there is something wrong with being adopted. Are our original names and origins so abhorrent that all record of where we came from and names given to us must be sealed away from us forever?
Again, rhetorical question. No need for anyone to comment.
A few thoughts as an adoptive parent, my children were born in Central Asia.
I think all adoptees should have access to whatever records exist. I agree that there needs to be a difference between an adoption certificate and a birth certificate. My children's lives did not begin the day I met them.
Name changes can be tricky. My daughter (who was abandoned and found by authorities) was named by the orphanage director. Her original name is really just a nickname meaning "white skin" because she has unusually light skin. Her last name is simply the name of the country's largest charitable organization for orphans. Sort of the equivalent of naming your child Pale Red Cross. On top of all that her first name was Russian and most people of my daughters ethnicity in her country actively hate the Russians. We renamed her after my mother, our daughter was 9mths old at adoption.
If my children have a wish to incorporate any name into the one that my husband and I gave them, that's fine with me. if they want to change it completely I guess I would be a little hurt but I would support whatever they want, it's their name.
If my children want to learn more about their culture (what's left of it after the Russians decimated their country) I'm thrilled to assist them.
If my children want to try to find their birth parents, as difficult as that would be for my daughter to do, I hope they'll let my trapse across the steppe with them.
If my kids have no I interest in their heritage or birth parents or if only one does, then that's ok too, the option is always out there if they change their mind.
A few thoughts as an adoptive parent, my children were born in Central Asia.
I think all adoptees should have access to whatever records exist. I agree that there needs to be a difference between an adoption certificate and a birth certificate. My children's lives did not begin the day I met them.
Name changes can be tricky. My daughter (who was abandoned and found by authorities) was named by the orphanage director. Her original name is really just a nickname meaning "white skin" because she has unusually light skin. Her last name is simply the name of the country's largest charitable organization for orphans. Sort of the equivalent of naming your child Pale Red Cross. On top of all that her first name was Russian and most people of my daughters ethnicity in her country actively hate the Russians. We renamed her after my mother, our daughter was 9mths old at adoption.
If my children have a wish to incorporate any name into the one that my husband and I gave them, that's fine with me. if they want to change it completely I guess I would be a little hurt but I would support whatever they want, it's their name.
If my children want to learn more about their culture (what's left of it after the Russians decimated their country) I'm thrilled to assist them.
If my children want to try to find their birth parents, as difficult as that would be for my daughter to do, I hope they'll let my trapse across the steppe with them.
If my kids have no I interest in their heritage or birth parents or if only one does, then that's ok too, the option is always out there if they change their mind.
Reading this encourages me as an adoptee. It is good to know that there are adoptive parents who support open records, transparency in adoption and the empowering of adoptees to determine what feels right regarding names. I wish my own adoptive parents were willing to be this supportive and open to my needs. At age 41, however, I've given up hope of that ever happening. And my relationship with them (surface level, they are like coworkers) reflects their unwillingness to accept me for who I am. All of who I am.
The interesting thing is that there are a lot of us out here (original parents, adoptees, some adoptive parents) who are actively working in our states of residence to have the laws changed so that ALL adoptees will have equal access to their factual birth records. And we are often accused of being "anti-adoption" and "anti-child" and "anti-adoptive parents" and all kinds of other *anti* things simply because we are calling for truth and honesty within a system that is neither truthful or honest. I find it interesting that trying to change a inequitable system means we are "anti" it as a concept.
It seems like some people advocating this change would want all historic records restored, which would be increasingly difficult the further back you go, while others might be more pragmatic and want the system changed from X date forward. Is it the inertia of the system that stands in the way, or can people not agree on the goal, or what? Unsympathetic or possessive parents aside, what is the obstacle in the courts?
I am a Korean adoptee and I have a "fake" US birth certificate naming my adoptive parents as my mother and father. There is no indication on it that I was adopted, but obviously 2 Irish people did not make me. Also, at the top, it's typed in "This certificate is not evidence of United States Citizenship". I often wondered if other BCs say that? My BC is strange to put it nicely.
I actually have been thinking about changing my name back, but it would be difficult career wise and my son is still in school and we have the same last name. I am thinking of making it my middle name however.
A quick Google search of "registering a home birth" indicates that several states (I did not look up all of them) do require that births are registered with the state. Of course, a parent could ignore this requirement. But the process of eventually registering the birth (if the child needs a passport or will be attending school or will want to be a licensed driver) becomes more and more involved the longer you wait. So yeah. Any parent could not register a birth and I guess could avoid it all together with a home birth, no form of traditional schooling (even home schoolers register with the district) and no need to travel anywhere by car or airplane. Or they could dump their child on the side of the road and make a run for it which would require other arrangements to be made for the child's care. In that case, perhaps an adoptee would not have an original birth certificate. This is a topic that is not specific only to adoption though.
None of this addresses the issue, however, of adoptees who DO have original birth certificates containing our original names and factual details. In all cases (every single one) of adoptees who DO have an original birth certificate containing our original names and factual details, that certificate is falsified upon finalization of our adoptions and the accurate one is sealed to never be recognized legally. For those of us who DO have an original birth certificate containing our original names and factual details, we are still the only class of people (in the class of people who's biological parents had the births of their children registered with the state) who are denied an accurate record of our birth and the ability to legally view proof that we are natural born citizens.
Yes, exactly.
My natural father gave my Birth Registration (short form) and my Certificate of Baptism to my adopting parents when he gave me to them at my age of 4 months. When my adoption was finalized one year and one week after my birth, Surrogate Court sent an Order to the State Captital to issue a new birth certificate for me. Three months later, the Registrar of Vital Statistics issued a Certificate of Birth Registration (short form) under my new adoptive name, stating that a Birth Certificate was placed on file. Three and a half years after my actual Baptism, my adoptive parents asked their lawyer to ask the Catholic Church for a new Baptismal Certificate under my new adoptive name, which the Church did. So, my new Baptismal Certificate has the issue date of 1959, stating that my baptism occured in 1956, but it names me under my adoptive name and not the name of my baptismal name and name at birth, and it names my parents of adoption (but does not say that), and names my Godparents (who are the same on both certificates.
In 1975, I applied for my long form Birth Certificate in my birthname, but the State sent my long form birth certificate in my adoptive name. A few years later, I applied again for my birth certificate, long form, under my birthname and it was given to me. Both documents were certified.
I am angry that the State sees it okay to falsify my birth.
Think about it: Every birth is required by law to be registered within five days aftger birth. And so mine was. I was born the 5th child to married parents. Yet, the law was written to cover-up illegitimacy adn to legitimize the illegitimate by providing two parents who were legally married: to be legitimae is to have a legitimate father, which I had by birth. I did not NEED to be legitimized by adoption.
Furthermore, when the Registrar of Vital Statistics takes the information from the Final Order of Adoption and creates a new birth certificate, he mixes birth facts with adoption facts. He knowingly and willingly places false facts on an official state government document, which is fraud. He then signs the document and affixes the raised State seal upon the new birth certifcate certifying that the information contained on it is true, which he knows is false, therefore, he is committing perjury, which is lying under oath.
It does not matter if the adoptive parents do not want such a document, the State does this automatically for each and every adoption BECAUSE IT IS LAW TO DO SO.
This is the case for Domestic addoptions.
For Intercountry adoptions, the adoption process itself requires a new birth certificate to be made BEFORE the child leaves the country and is part of the process of adoption and immigration. This is outlined on the Dept of State Website in accordance with The hague Convention.
Falsification of birth certificates goes against logic, as I stated in previous posts. A truthful Adoption Certificate would be much better as it would list all the facts of adoption as it is a separate event from birth. It owuld be much better if all children (and adults) would have one and only one birth certificate, and an adoption certificate if they were adopted, and both of these certificates needed for identity purposes. This was the way ti was done in USA prior to 1930.
Again, as I stated previously in other posts in another thread, if two gay men fight for the right to be named on a birth certificate for their adopted child, that not only goes against logic, but it is wrong for one minority group to step on the rights of another minority group to gain their civil rights.
If two lesbian women win the right to be named on their adopted child's birth certificate, their adoptee will grow up and know that they are not facing reality. Two women cannot conceive, carrying a pregnancy and give birth, any more than two men can. Any child knows it takes a man and a woman to create a baby. Therefore, it is illogical for two men, or two women, to be named on a new birth certificate. Teh child will know that the parents are lying to him and lying to each other.
This is not a good basis for a trusting and loving parent-child relationship.
Kaykee, while my kids do have the adoption version of their birth certificates we were also given the originals along with all the other records that existed. We adopted pre-Hague so I'm not sure if this has changed.
A few thoughts as an adoptive parent, my children were born in Central Asia.
I think all adoptees should have access to whatever records exist. I agree that there needs to be a difference between an adoption certificate and a birth certificate. My children's lives did not begin the day I met them.
Name changes can be tricky. My daughter (who was abandoned and found by authorities) was named by the orphanage director. Her original name is really just a nickname meaning "white skin" because she has unusually light skin. Her last name is simply the name of the country's largest charitable organization for orphans. Sort of the equivalent of naming your child Pale Red Cross. On top of all that her first name was Russian and most people of my daughters ethnicity in her country actively hate the Russians. We renamed her after my mother, our daughter was 9mths old at adoption.
If my children have a wish to incorporate any name into the one that my husband and I gave them, that's fine with me. if they want to change it completely I guess I would be a little hurt but I would support whatever they want, it's their name.
If my children want to learn more about their culture (what's left of it after the Russians decimated their country) I'm thrilled to assist them.
If my children want to try to find their birth parents, as difficult as that would be for my daughter to do, I hope they'll let my trapse across the steppe with them.
If my kids have no I interest in their heritage or birth parents or if only one does, then that's ok too, the option is always out there if they change their mind.
I'm beginning to see that there is no reason why the children can't know who their birth parents are, what there names are or their heritage.
With children from Central Asia, they are what they are. My daughter is Korean. She knows that she is Korean.
The children I adopt from Ukraine will be Ukrainian or Ukrainian Russian unless they are Roma. We will know this. So again, the pattern that seems to be emerging is the burning desire of DOMESTIC adopties to know their heritage, and the lack there of of International Adoptees to know this.
If my daughter ever changes her mind, about meeting them, in Korea it's not even possible. I really do not think she will ever want to.
I don't think she will ever care about her parents names. She knows what time and where she was born so she has access to her Astrological Natal Chart, which is important in our family.
i agree about name changes. My daughter's was given by a Foster Mother. She knows it, and that's enough for her.
I'm beginning to see that there is no reason why the children can't know who their birth parents are, what there names are or their heritage.
With children from Central Asia, they are what they are. My daughter is Korean. She knows that she is Korean.
The children I adopt from Ukraine will be Ukrainian or Ukrainian Russian unless they are Roma. We will know this. So again, the pattern that seems to be emerging is the burning desire of DOMESTIC adopties to know their heritage, and the lack there of of International Adoptees to know this.
If my daughter ever changes her mind, about meeting them, in Korea it's not even possible. I really do not think she will ever want to.
I don't think she will ever care about her parents names. She knows what time and where she was born so she has access to her Astrological Natal Chart, which is important in our family.
i agree about name changes. My daughter's was given by a Foster Mother. She knows it, and that's enough for her.
You are making assumptions there. You do realise that Marymarym is a Korean adoptee? Also, there are thousands of Korean adoptees making their way back to Korea to find their bparents and/or more about their heritage.
in Korea it's not even possible.
It is, in fact, very possible for Korean adoptees to locate their bparents and, as I've said above, many are doing so. I will attach some articles when I get more time (I'm at work).
This is not to say that your daughter should have to do so - merely pointing that it is in fact possible.
burning desire of DOMESTIC adopties to know their heritage
Btw I "knew" all my heritage before contacting my bfamily - thanks to Births, Deaths and Marriage and information from books purchased from a family history site, I know even though I was born in NZ, I am Australian through and through heritage-wise. However, I actually wanted to know the PEOPLE behind the heritage, I wanted to get to know my relatives and I wanted to know what my bmother was like as a person. I very much treasure all the photos I have of my bmother and also have very much enjoyed getting to hear other people's memories of what she was like. I know I am lucky in that I do have a "good story" with my bfamily (despite the sadness of my bmom having passed away so young). It is nice to know that my bmom seems to have been a lovely lady and also it is interesting to see how similar I am to them all. In regards to looks, facially there are similarities but also differences, but bodywise, I seem to have inherited almost every body part I can see - my hands, feet, knees, neck etc are all just like hers.
Last edited by susankate; 09-19-2012 at 08:56 PM..
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