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He got lost. Without African influences jazz will not be jazz. Pure and simple.
Now an Irish American commentator spoke of the AFRICAN influences in country music, as the Irish and the Africans did impact one another. And the banjo was African in origin. Unlike you he didnt allow this to lead to the conclusion that the roots of country lie in the Senegambia/Mali region.
People exposed to each other impact each other and greatly transform what they develop to suit their needs. Clearly jazz has European influences as the Africans in New Orleans were greatly impressed by militia music, and Euro melody and harmonies play a strong role. But to say that its roots are in Ireland is a joke. The syncopation, key to jazz, as well as the improvision, are clearly African...even if not easily discernable as such.
The point is that jazz is an AMERICAN art form which could have only developed in an environment where European and African musicians were in contact with each other.
Whats european american about me? European language, european cuisine, european holidays, european education. What african about africans? Just ancestry but not culture.
The term Euro American is not necessary becaus emost American whites have a notion about where their ancestry lies.
African Americans do not have this, so use a continent, rather than an ethnic group to signify ethnic identification. I believe that Jesse Jackson was trying to suggest that Black Americans are more than their implied skin color (which isnt usually black any way).
Very true. By reading some of these comments you would think the average black American from East Oakland or New Orleans or Washington DC could be just be dropped into any European country and seamlessly intergrate. .
I live in NYC. It is always amusing when a WASP and an "ethnic" white (Jew, Italian, etc] must relate to each other. The USA is a diverse country and ethnic identity correlating to various degrees with a specific style/culture is a fact.
I don't think Black-Americans are that directly African.
I do believe we still have African sensibilities that we apply to various things. When I say we aren't that African but still have African sensibilities I mean in the sense that you can't find many direct African cultural things with Black-Americans but we approach certain things in an African way. Like we don't speak any African languages but African linguistics has influenced "black english". We don't practice African religions but we approach Christianity in an African way. We don't play music that's African but we approach music in general with some African sensibilities.
I agree with this. As usual African Americans are an ETHNIC group which evolved in the USA, maintaining some residual aspects of their culture, having to negotiate some level of connection to the mainstream, and so becoming something that is not recognizable in the lands of their ancestry.
This is true for virtually every other group.
A WASP American sticks out in London, and the British laugh at any notion that they are "English".
Because I don't identify with anything southern. I don't even cook in the typical southern fashion most blacks do. the south as a whole just seems nothing at all like the west coast. I barely feel at home in Southern California. I feel the most at home in the Pacific Northwest which really is worlds away from the south. my interest, way of doing things and beliefs just don't seem to be in line with the southern blacks I've met. Even you and I have a bit of a communication barrier and that's due to us being shaped by different environments.
a lot of aframs can't even speak proper english, sadly.......
The average African person I've met in real life or on line not only can speak and understand two or more different tribal languages and English to varying degrees but alot of them can also speak some French and or Arabic as well.
Most Africans are multilingual where as most African Americans can only speak English and, sadly, too many of us don't speak English that well either even though it's their first and only language.
Ooops. I just realized by aframs you probably meant African Americans. Thought it was a typo for Africans at first.
I would stick out like a sore thumb in any neighborhood in Houston, black or white. I've never been there ut I can't imagine Black Americans really feeling like they belong there or are even wanted there. Here again, I am speaking with a west coast bias. In some parts of Southern California, I might feel invisible but wouldn't say I feel like I stick out all that much. In other places I have felt actually embraced as a Black American by everyone, like I was just another American.
I am glad you found in the West Coast a place you can be content and happy. I truly am. California is a beautiful and wonderful place. However, I am soooo tired of on City Data the typical Californian responses showing that they feel so incredibly superior and holier than thou when it comes to the South.
Even though the majority of them saying these things have never set foot in the South they will make it sound as if they know for a fact that the South is this extremely backwards place, negative in every way with a KKK club around every corner and all us Black people living there are these sloberin, uncle tom, buffoons who don't have the good sense to make that bare footed run for the Mason-Dixie line. Even New Yorkers and other East Coasters who are known for their arrogance don't come down on the South anywhere near as hard as Californians and it's obvious they aren't anywhere near as ignorant about the South as Californians.
Let me point out for you that the South is littered with hundred year old colleges (many of them Dam good) that were founded by us. Many of America's first African American millionaires found their wealth here. You will find more black engineers, doctors, lawyers, mayors, police chiefs, fire chiefs, D.A.s, judges, franchises etc. etc. down here than any other region of the nation. Blacks here created much of the music that the country as a whole has historically and presently listened to along with alot of Americana culture in general.
Am I excusing the South for slavery and all it's brutality and racism of the past? Hell no. But do you think for one minute that the South invented slavery and was the only place to benefit from it? If so you are blind. Bristol and Liverpool England are cluttered with urban mansions built by captains that made their fortune off of slaves same as the Back bay neighborhood of Boston. Certain huge Banks and Insurance companies in New York today made a fortune insuring slaves and loaning to slave traders. There was a slave auction block right on Wall Street.
And the West is not innocent either. Did you know that parts of the frontier West that used to be as high as 25% Black with black cowboys and farmers post Civil War now have some of the lowest percentages of Blacks in the nation? Why? Because they didn't want Blacks there and made that very clear to them forcing them to move on to Cali or go back East.
And so many people on the Left Coast like to end their statements by gushing over how multicultural and color blind their segment of the country is and how comparatively little racial tension there is there. Well I have news for you. Racial tension is mostly avoided in Metros out west by the simple fact that their aren't too many blacks for the whites out there to have to deal with. The Black percentages in Metros out there is extremly low compared to the South or the East Coast and Mid West cities. This results in less competition for whites from blacks for jobs and education slots and they don't have to deal as much with the Black underclass. Yet you still see on City Data a lot of complaining by California posters about Mexicans, (especially in SoCAL). The lack of tension you perceive towards Blacks is simply a lack of having to deal with us so much.
If I could I would place a bet that the color blind, "We are the World" none blacks you are so proud to be amongst in Cali and the PNW would shock you if a million of their demographic were suddenly replaced with black faces making the Black ratio closer to Eastern levels. I guarantee you you would then see a lot more white flight, segregation, negative attitude and tension all of a sudden from the people you thought were so in love with you despite your race.
In the South Blacks and Whites have always had to work with and deal with each other a whole whole lot (whites can't escape large numbers of us even in the most rural small towns here in Georgia). This forces alot of Black/White interaction and working things out to have to take place. It ain't always pretty, but I find Southern Whites to be far more used to dealing with lots and lots of Blacks than in most other parts of the country and we get things done together.
End of my rant.
Last edited by Galounger; 11-21-2013 at 03:02 PM..
I am glad you found in the West Coast a place you can be content and happy. I truly am. California is a beautiful and wonderful place. However, I am soooo tired of on City Data the typical Californian responses showing that they feel so incredibly superior and holier than thou when it comes to the South.
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This is as far as I needed to read. Now, I can't remark on your interactions with other Californians on C-D. However, please tell me how me making a choice based on what I previously said is thinking I am superior to anyone else? I don't feel this way until I read responses such as this. So because I make a personal decision that does not include the south, I am some how thinking I am superior? This attitude is in part why I said I don't feel like I would fit in anywhere in the south. I prefer a place with a more live and let live vibe, a place where I can live for myself without having to get the approval of those who share my skin color. If that to you makes you think that people like me have a superiority complex, then you just proved my point. I don't think Californians on C-D have as much of a superiority complex as much as many others may have an inferiority complex. So because we love our home region and show pride in that we get accused of such nonsense. Texans are known for having a great deal of pride in their state too and why shouldn't they? It's ok for them but bad for Californians? mmmmkay
Now, If I'm mistaken and somehow misread your post, I apologize. I actually said that the PNW is actually my favorite region despite me being a native Californian.
This is as far as I needed to read. Now, I can't remark on your interactions with other Californians on C-D. However, please tell me how me making a choice based on what I previously said is thinking I am superior to anyone else? I don't feel this way until I read responses such as this. So because I make a personal decision that does not include the south, I am some how thinking I am superior? This attitude is in part why I said I don't feel like I would fit in anywhere in the south. I prefer a place with a more live and let live vibe, a place where I can live for myself without having to get the approval of those who share my skin color. If that to you makes you think that people like me have a superiority complex, then you just proved my point. I don't think Californians on C-D have as much of a superiority complex as much as many others may have an inferiority complex. So because we love our home region and show pride in that we get accused of such nonsense. Texans are known for having a great deal of pride in their state too and why shouldn't they? It's ok for them but bad for Californians? mmmmkay
Now, If I'm mistaken and somehow misread your post, I apologize. I actually said that the PNW is actually my favorite region despite me being a native Californian.
First off you said that you hadn't been to Houston but couldn't see how any Black person would want to live there. Typical Californian judging the South not having been there.
As for the other posters I'm speaking of many of them would say down right offensive stuff about the South that wasn't true and make derogatory jokes about it then add that they hadn't been there and didn't want to ever go. That's the same as if someone said "I've never set foot in California and don't want to but it sucks coz it's full of nuts, weirdos, and flakes (just an example).
I never once said I had anything against you because you had pride in your region. Texans are a very proud people I know but I never hear them say negative stuff about other parts of the country that they had never been to as often I as I hear the California posters on here do. I'm proud of where I'm from. That doesn't cause me to sit here and make totally misinformed negative statements about places I don't know first hand about.
First off you said that you hadn't been to Houston but couldn't see how any Black person would want to live there.
I didn't say live. I said wanted as in feeling wanted. I don't know anything about their desires. Even if I did say that, how and why would that impact your life?
Quote:
"I've never set foot in California and don't want to but it sucks coz it's full of nuts, weirdos, and flakes (just an example).
People do say that all the time. We poke fun at them then get on with our lives. I live in the land of fruits and nuts and like it just like that. I'm one of the weirdos they're talking about and yes, people in California, indeed up and down the west coast are notoriously flaky and it can get annoying. I never said it was perfect, just my preference once again.
Quote:
I never hear them say negative stuff about other parts of the country that they had never been to as often I as I hear the California posters on here do. I'm proud of where I'm from. That doesn't cause me to sit here and make totally misinformed negative statements about places I don't know first hand about.
Again, why are you allowing that to have such an impact on you? It's not like people are going to stop doing it because you think they ought to. If it's not affecting your day to day life, just roll your eyes and move on. If it is affecting your life, then there is something more here that needs to be addressed.
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