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"The North African/Middle Eastern genetic component is identified especially in Copts. The Coptic population present in Sudan is an example of a recent migration from Egypt over the past two centuries. They are close to Egyptians in the PCA, but remain a differentiated cluster, showing their own component at k = 4 (Fig. 3). Copts lack the influence found in Egyptians from Qatar, an Arabic population. It may suggest that Copts have a genetic composition that could resemble the ancestral Egyptian population, without the present strong Arab influence."
There is no dispute the Copts are the original Egyptians. See Figure 3 These are Sudanese Copts they moved from Egypt to Sudan over the last two centuries they have a heavier sub-Saharan African admixture than Copts in Egypt. The dark green is the significant color in K=4, K=5. It would have been better if the North African and Middle Eastern components which are represented by the dark blue color would have been separated, I suspect that the dark blue for the Copts is picking up overwhelmingly North African Berber ancestry rather than recent Middle Eastern from the Islamic invaders.
i am Egyptian myself and i am appaled by the afrocentric attempts to steal our history and remove us out of it
i never thought some could be that wretched
first, stealing someone else's history is admitting that ur true history isnt good enough for you, that ur history is inferior to Egypt's history
second u dont only come up with myth and unfounded statements to inject urselves into our history, u also want to remove us from it by claiming we are Arabs or Turks ro whatever
only someone tat realizes he is inferior to others would go so far, dont ask nobody to respect u when u have no repect for urselves, when u deep down realize u are inferior and u cant compare to ithers on ur own so u need to steal in order to feel equal lol
such wretchedness
i am Egyptian myself and i am appaled by the afrocentric attempts to steal our history and remove us out of it
i never thought some could be that wretched
first, stealing someone else's history is admitting that ur true history isnt good enough for you, that ur history is inferior to Egypt's history
second u dont only come up with myth and unfounded statements to inject urselves into our history, u also want to remove us from it by claiming we are Arabs or Turks ro whatever
only someone tat realizes he is inferior to others would go so far, dont ask nobody to respect u when u have no repect for urselves, when u deep down realize u are inferior and u cant compare to ithers on ur own so u need to steal in order to feel equal lol
such wretchedness
Cacheable,So you think the majority of black presence in Egypt was due to Arab slave trade. Incredible. This shows you have no idea of the history of Egypt,.
Despite the fact that you canot so much as transcribe my handle correctly, I am going to assume that you are speaking to me. There is no doubt, none what-so-ever, that the amount of Sub Saharan African DNA in Egyptians has increased over the years:
Research on ancient DNA in the Near East Mateusz Baca Research on ancient DNA in the Near East | Martyna Molak - Academia.edu To obtain the frequencies of these mtDNA types, amplification of the HVRI region and three RFLP markers was conducted. The authors succeeded in analysing RFLP markers in 34 samples and HVRI sequences in 18 of the samples. Both populations, ancient and contemporary, fit the north-south clinal distribution of “southern” and “northern” mtDNA types (Graver et al. 2001). However, significant differences were found between these populations. Based on an increased frequency of HpaI 3592 (+) haplotypes in the contemporary Dakhlehian population, the authors suggested that, since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.
mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians supports the existence of gene flow between sub-Sahara and North Africa in the Nile valley C. Fox, 1997 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9158841 The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26·7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa I (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68·7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution
Mitochondrial DNA Research in the Dakhleh Oasis, Egypt Alison M. Graver Molecular genetic research is being conducted as part of the Dakhleh Oasis Project (DOP), an international and multi-disciplinary research initiative in the western desert of Egypt. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is being analyzed from both ancient human skeletal remains associated with the Roman period town of Kellis (100 to 450 AD) and contemporary inhabitants of the Dakhleh Oasis. The primary objectives of this research are to derive paleogenetic information about the inhabitants of ancient Kellis, and to develop a picture of change over time within this desert oasis. Preliminary mtDNA restriction site data and control region sequence variability suggest significant genetic differences exist between the ancient and modern oasis populations
mtDNA Analysis of Nile River Valley Populations: A Genetic Corridor or a Barrier to Migration? Krings mtDNA analysis of Nile River Valley populations: A genetic corridor or a barrier to migration? - PubMed - NCBI To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of “northern” or “southern” affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan. At slowly evolving sites within HV1, northern-mtDNA diversity was highest in Egypt and lowest in the southern Sudan, and southern-mtDNA diversity was highest in the southern Sudan and lowest in Egypt, indicating that migrations had occurred bidirectionally along the Nile River Valley. Egypt and Nubia have low and similar amounts of divergence for both mtDNA types, which is consistent with historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia. Spatial autocorrelation analysis demonstrates a smooth gradient of decreasing genetic similarity of mtDNA types as geographic distance between sampling localities increases, strongly suggesting gene flow along the Nile, with no evident barriers. We conclude that these migrations probably occurred within the past few hundred to few thousand years and that the migration from north to south was either earlier or lesser in the extent of gene flow than the migration from south to north.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
Masses of Arabs entered Egypt and spread to the rest of North Africa in 630 AD during islamization. ,.
Because Egypt is a corridor of three continents, migrations have been ocuriing for 50,000 years or more. The Egyptian people are a mixed race, and always have been since Neolithic times:
A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in NorthAfrica Arredi A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in North Africa
"We have typed 275 men from five populations in Algeria, Tunisia, and Egypt with a set of 119 binary markers and 15 microsatellites from the Y chromosome, and we have analyzed the results together with published data from Moroccan populations. North African Y-chromosomal diversity is geographically structured and fits the pattern expected under an isolation-by-distance model Autocorrelation analyses reveal an east-west cline of genetic variation that extends into the Middle East and is compatible with a hypothesis of demic expansion. This expansion must have involved relatively small numbers of Y chromosomes to account for the reduction in gene diversity towards the West that accompanied the frequency increase of Y haplogroup E3b2, but gene flow must have been maintained to explain the observed pattern of isolation-by-distance. Since the estimates of the times to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCAs) of the most common haplogroups are quite recent, we suggest that the North African pattern of Y-chromosomal variation is largely of Neolithic origin. Thus, we propose that the Neolithic transition in this part of the world was accompanied by demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic–speaking pastoralists from the Middle East."... that most of the rest fell into haplogroup U6 (Salas et al. [/SIZE][SIZE=3]2002[/SIZE][SIZE=3]), which perhaps originated in the Near East and spread into North Africa ~30 thousand years (KY) ago (KYA
Mitochondrial DNA transit between West Asia and North Africa inferred from U6 phylogeographyMaca-Meyer BMC Genetics | Full text | Mitochondrial DNA transit between West Asia and North Africa inferred from U6 phylogeography
World-wide phylogeographic distribution of human complete mitochondrial DNA sequences suggested a West Asian origin for the autochthonous North African lineage U6. We report here a more detailed analysis of this lineage, unraveling successive expansions that affected not only Africa but neighboring regions such as the Near East, the Iberian Peninsula and the Canary Islands.
The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa Olivieri A http://www.sciencemag.org/content/31.../1767.abstract
Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event(s) that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions [/SIZE][SIZE=3]that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa
Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages (RETUNR TO THIS ONE???) http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2009231a.html Fulvio Cruciani et al. Although human Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b are quite rare in Africa, being found mainly in Asia and Europe, a group of chromosomes within the paragroup R-P25* are found concentrated in the central-western part of the African continent, where they can be detected at frequencies as high as 95%. Phylogenetic evidence and coalescence time estimates suggest that R-P25* chromosomes (or their phylogenetic ancestor) may have been carried to Africa by an Asia-to-Africa back migration in prehistoric times. Here, we describe six new mutations that define the relationships among the African R-P25* Y chromosomes and between these African chromosomes and earlier reported R-P25 Eurasian sub-lineages. The incorporation of these new mutations into a phylogeny of the R1b haplogroup led to the identification of a new clade (R1b1a or R-V88) encompassing all the African R-P25* and about half of the few European/west Asian R-P25* chromosomes. A worldwide phylogeographic analysis of the R1b haplogroup provided strong support to the Asia-to-Africa back-migration hypothesis. The analysis of the distribution of the R-V88 haplogroup in >1800 males from 69 African populations revealed a striking genetic contiguity between the Chadic-speaking peoples from the central Sahel and several other Afroasiatic-speaking groups from North Africa. The R-V88 coalescence time was estimated at 9200–5600 kya, in the early mid Holocene. We suggest that R-V88 is a paternal genetic record of the proposed mid-Holocene migration of proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers through the Central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin, and geomorphological evidence is consistent with this view.[/SIZE]
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
If you are thinking Arabs are indigenous to Africa, lay off the medical marijuana.,.
Please stop the idiodic insults. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
Guess what else happen during islamization/, During the rule of the Ummayad Caliph Hisham (724-743) in the year 732 Arabs were settled in Egypt to enlarge the Arab presence in the country. The Arab historians see this development as the beginning of the arabization of the rural population of Egypt. Later on in the Abbasid period in 830 two tribes were settled in Upper Egypt, i.e. the tribe of Kenz [sic] and Hillal. These settlement activities indicate a growing Arab population in Egypt. The individual and voluntary settlements in the country are not accounted for in the report of the state sponsored settlements.,.
The greater change has been more sub-saharan African DNA due to the slave trade, as documented in several posted studies.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
2. Ancient egyptian language is not dead, related to Wolof, Coptic language. KMT means (black)
The oldest, official name for Egypt, by the Ancient Egyptians themselves, is Kmt (Keme) or Black. The contemporary Egyptian (Coptic) words for Egypt are (depending on the particular dialect): Kame, Keme, Kimi, and Kheme – all of which mean Black. Also in Coptic Egyptian we have, kem, kame, kmi, kmem, kmom or “to be black.”
The Ancient Egyptians referred to themselves as Kmtjw (Kemetu) and Kmmw (Kmemu) or Black people (In contemporary Egyptian: Kmemou=Black people). In Wolof, Khem means “burnt to black.”.,.
KMT refers to the black soil, just as Dshrt refers to the red terrain or desert. They called thier nation "the two lands."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger101
3. Unfortunately if you read Greek and Roman texts , you would already know the following:
Please. You have never read a single ancient text and hav no idea what you are talking about. I have read Herodotus, Xenophon, Thucidydis, Tactitus, Suetonius, Ceasar, Cicero, Polybius, Livy, Josephus, the Augustin writers,, Arrian, and a host of others. Stop this nonesene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger101
Herodotus, a Greek writer in the 5th century B.C. claims that "the people of Colchis must be Egyptians because like them they are black-skinned and wooly-haired." (History, Book II.) The interesting thing about what Herodotus wrote is that had he believed the Egyptians to be any other color than black like other Africans he could have chosen other Greek words than the one he chose. His word is melaschroes, black-skinned. If Herodotus thought the Egyptians were white he would have used leucochroes. Had they been simply brown, like so many African Americans, he may have used phrenychroes, but he chose the word melaschroes. This word comes from the same root as Melanesia, the black island, or melanite, a black garnet. The ancient Greek use of "melas" was precise. Egypt is in Africa. Why shouldn't the ancient Egyptians be anything other than black?
It is good tha tyou know that he said "melanchroes," because the word refers to swarthy white people. Here is a part of the Odyssey in which Odysseus is described as melenchroes:
With this, Athena touched him [Odysseus] with her golden wand. A well-washed cloak and a tunic she first of all cast about his breast, and she increased his stature and his youthful bloom. Once more he grew dark of color [melanchroiĂªs], and his cheeks filled out, and dark grew the beard about his chin.
Herodotus actually distingushed between Egytpian and Nubian Pharohs- HE SAID THEY WERE DIFFERENT:
After this man the priest enumerate to me from a papyrus the names of other Kings, three hundred and thirty in number; and in all these generations of men eighteen were Ethiopians, one was a woman and the rest were men and of Egyptian race.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
The Greek philosopher Aristotle writes in the 4th century B.C. in Physiognomonica that the "Egyptians and Ethiopians were very black
Aristotle never actually went to Egypt. Besides, we have discussed the fact that you are reading phny Afrocentric translations.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
Count Voleny was a french scholar who stated""that this race of Black men, today our slave and the object of our scorn, is the very race to which we owe our arts, sciences, and even the use of speech! upon seeing the sphinx. I can only find youtube video of his recantment.
Count Volney recanted, and besides, was NOT an anthopologist. His oppinion means nothing.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
3. “Most eople have bogus creation myths. The Romans said they were descended from Trojans. No one beleives that either”.
Cmon, i am not talking of folklore. I am talking science.
Beja People of Sudan, Eritrea and Egypt are an ancient people, who are
linguistically, the closest kin to the ancient Egyptians. It is said that there is as
much as a 70% correspondence between the Beja language and Ancient Egyptian!
But language is not genetics. As we have demonstrated time and again, the genetics does not support this creation myth.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
Egyptologist, Emile Brugsch traced the clan of the Khawr kiji Beja through the
matriarchal Female line to the 20th Dynasty.
Even if true all it would prove is that one New Kindom dynasty wsa Beja. Yes, we know that foeign influences came form both directions.
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Originally Posted by Tiger101
4. “s demonstrated in post ten, most believe that they were approximately the same people that they have always been.
Genetic analysis of modern Egyptians reveals that they have paternal lineages common to indigenous North-East African populations primarily (Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco), and to Middle Eastern peoples to a lesser extent—these lineages would have spread during the Neolithic and were maintained by the predynastic period.
Ancient Egyptians had a E1B1B1A haplotype, found in Indigenious African black population. E1B1B1A is believed to originated in Southern Egypt area 20,000 years ago, near Kom Ombo area , one hour from Aswan where my mother was born and raised. Most Cu****ic speakers, hornets have E1B1B1A haplotype.
Look up tropical adaptation and how the ancient egyptian with their body type were tropical blacks not eurasian. Bit about myself... I am African ..Ethiopian father ( Amhara/ Gurage) and Egyptian mother ( A nubian). Thus not afrocentric , just tired of self proclaimed ( arrogant non african ) experts like yourself, on others history. Your motivation is based on the idea that blacks ( Africans ) other than wearing loincloth and dancing around with spears threatens your self identity or self worth.
Why not come to Africa , Egypt better yet tell us about history. I am sure even my mother who was twenty when she was forced with Aswan dam construction , force moved back to Aswan. While other nubians lost their home, were forced relocated to southern Egypt. I am sure both my mother and fellow nubians would love to hear your bull****.
Join egyptsearch if cannot travel, I am sure everyone there ,would love to hear history according to you.
I will not address this anymore with you here, too busy and learned long ago..to fight ignorance is waste of time and thankless job.
Start reading and if you want to debate more about it, come join on egyptsearch forum and I will get the popcorn ready.
No. They had a vast array of haplotypes as some of the studies posted above attest to.
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Originally Posted by jkc2j
And yet Europeans claim the accomplishements of Rome and Greence and no one seems to bat an eye. Makes you think huh?
This is jsu tplain childish. Modern day Europe and America has real, direct links to Greece and Rome. We live in Republics conscioulsy modelled on Rome, and the founding fathers debated a Greek model. Law and Medicine are direct ocntinuations of what wsent on in Greece and Rome, and both fields are permeated with Greek and Roman words. We could go on for days about how you cannot understand the west without understanding Greece and Rome.
Modern day black Africans and African Americans have nothing whatsoever to do with Egypt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger101
Getting to King Tut, some scientist based on his dna haplotype R1b1, called him white/anglo saxon. Here the key, he hotspot is Cameroon ( a black indigenious), R1b1* was observed at a frequency of up to 95% in some tribes of northern Cameroon (like the Kirdi), and about 15% nationwide. I guess by definition , Cameroonians are predominantly anglo saxon ,not African.
This is all nosnese. The ONLY DNA analysis that has been done on Tut is the Journal of American Medicidne analysis (the DNA TRIBES study uses data from the JAMA).
Albert Zink, who as in charge of the studies, admitted to falsifying the results. He could not repeat them and merely publsihed the one he liked the best.
"Zink has stated that the tests did not get the same results each time they were run and the results reported in the JAMA paper are those the team adjudged "most likely" based on "majority rule" (Curse of the Pharaoh's DNA AWT Conference Review, Marchant; 2011)
The article says "Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa," he said, quoted by the official MENA news agency. So do they consider themselves white if their skin is dark?
The article says "Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans despite the fact that Egypt is in Africa," he said, quoted by the official MENA news agency. So do they consider themselves white if their skin is dark?
Humans are mostly divided by Caucasians, Negroids and Mongoloids. These actually have very little to due with skin tone. Now many parts of Asia have light skin ie Japan, Korea whereas South East Asians Malay, Indonesians have dark skin. Arabs are technically Caucasians.
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