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Not only do they claim ancient Egypt, they also claim Native americans. They claim the ancient Olmecs. Go on youtube and type in Olmec and all this weird **** about ancient nubian egypto-olmecs will pop up. Most of these bull**** theories come from new york city.
I don't have as much time as you obviously have. So just a few remarks...
There are not many African civilizations of global interest, you, the self-proclaimed know-it-all, don't know others than the usual ones, either. There are just a handful, feel free to list African civilizations that rivaled ancient India, Persia, China, Egypt, Mesopotamia. You are just hoping there were some...
One thing about great civilizations is that they do not disappear just like that, they evolve and get adopted by neighbors. If people in, say, what is now Nigeria had developed writing, it would have spread and survived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling
What now, first you say that all people are subject to greed etc. Kind of excusing black Africans from their misdeeds, from enslaving and selling each other...
And now you put it again as if black Africans had been better people. Victims of evil whites because they were oh so peaceful and kind, too nice to withstand whites
Note, I'm a pretty quick and decent writer so it only takes me 2-10 minutes to write a post (5 minutes most of the time) so lol about having time.
I also don't think I know everything about all ancient cultures. You are the one who said there were none in Africa that were noteworthy other than the Nok. I probably do know more about African civilizations than you only because I was into African history for a time when I was a teen and read and watched a lot of material about the continent outside of Egypt during that time in my life. Ironically I also got on an Egyptian kick when I was in Middle School and read a lot of material about Egypt at that time as well, which is the basis for me not having any sort of feeling of deep genealogical connection especially with Egyptian civilization as a black American and why I get into verbal and online tifts with the black people I know in America who are more Egypt-centric so to speak (I think it is ridiculous and they get upset at me over my thoughts).
On the bold, I agree with you on the bold, which is why you cannot definitively say that Western Africa in particular didn't have any great civilizations since all the civilizations we do know about, like the Nok have their historical basis in previous eras and peoples. The general public only knows a little about very few ancient societies. I would include both myself and you in this general public who knows little about ancient societies; however, you are the one who is stating that what you believe/know is absolute and are placing views of inferiority or superiority on specific ancient, non-existent today cultures and societies.
On the blue, how is me saying all people are subject to greed excusing the facts I wrote about Africans working with Europeans to enslave people for their own greed.....that is an odd comment. I didn't say "black Africans" were better people either just that they didn't go around pillaging the world because they were not unsatisfied with there they were and what they had like Europeans were. All people are subject to greed and violence, but Europeans in recent history (past 500 years) have a monopoly on it from a global standpoint IMO.
How can I state that what I believe is absolute?! Believing already implies the opposite.
My belief is that although there will be more digging and discoveries of course, they won't unearth an ancient African civilization of global importance.
And that's ok, I don't think any people should make their self-esteem depend on their ancestors having brought about such a civilization. Otherwise most of the world would and should have an inferiority complex
I don't really share your view of white people (although I can understand it, you being black). Most white people are not racist exploiters at all, back in the colonial times it was the European elite, often in the name of the Church or the king/queen, that went abroad and did a lot of bad things. The overwhelming majority of Europeans stayed at home and lead their miserable, short lives without hurting anyone.
The elite is always at risk of becoming immoral. Just think of all the African leaders of today, most African governments are run by people accumulating considerable wealth while their peoples are fighting to survive.
I think in that respect East Asians are the least problematic ones as they have a stronger sense of society and community as opposed to egoism and individuality.
How can I state that what I believe is absolute?! Believing already implies the opposite.
My belief is that although there will be more digging and discoveries of course, they won't unearth an ancient African civilization of global importance.
And that's ok, I don't think any people should make their self-esteem depend on their ancestors having brought about such a civilization. Otherwise most of the world would and should have an inferiority complex
I don't really share your view of white people (although I can understand it, you being black). Most white people are not racist exploiters at all, back in the colonial times it was the European elite, often in the name of the Church or the king/queen, that went abroad and did a lot of bad things. The overwhelming majority of Europeans stayed at home and lead their miserable, short lives without hurting anyone.
The elite is always at risk of becoming immoral. Just think of all the African leaders of today, most African governments are run by people accumulating considerable wealth while their peoples are fighting to survive.
I think in that respect East Asians are the least problematic ones as they have a stronger sense of society and community as opposed to egoism and individuality.
The bold is evidence of your absolute beliefs (it also overlooks the fact that Egypt is in Africa and was a great African culture. Which you spoke upon indirectly, Egypt has its roots in other African cultures/people).
Honestly seems to me you are invested in an African/black inferiority mindset based on those comments.
I agree about the blue above as well and do not have a negative view of white people. I think all people are of the same "race" and that we all are capable of good and evil and everything in between. Also that we all live basically similar lives since we have the same needs to survive as humans on this earth. Race as we know it is a sociological concept. Culture, as I noted is a shared history and experiences of people in a country or close geographical area.
I do not think Africans are superior to Europeans and I don't think Europeans are superior to Asians or Africans. Every culture on this earth has a similar experience in life, but if you look at things from a holistic perspective, you can see patterns in history, which is what I spoke about in regards to my great grandmother's comments about morality. And note, I only brought those up because you have repeatedly shown your inferiority complex about Africans and people of African descent in the thread. It was an example of how other people can view you as a European/white person also in an inferior light. People are like that. We can see patterns and make conclusions. But facts are you don't know about very many ancient African civilizations, and even if you did, based on your cultural adherence to the idea that Europeans and Asians are better or superior, even if you were faced with a black African society that in some way was "better" than a European or Asian one, you wouldn't consider (or you would claim it was European/Asian like people do with Egypt) it I don't believe because you have shown in the thread that your are very much invested in the idea of black/African inferiority. And note, I don't mean that to be harsh towards you as we all have our hang ups, but that is just how you come across with the idea that blacks in America don't have a culture (and if we do it is negative) that there was never any great civilizations in Africa (and even if there was they were worse than XYZ). It is always interesting to me to be faced with such comments and people.
ETA: Please note, I am not one to buy into concepts such as "self esteem" and I think that is a bunch of crap. So if you have any notions that I am basing my comments on "self esteem" know that you are incorrect. My initial comments to you were about the fact that you are ignorant about black American culture. I stand by those comments and being ignorant simply means "not knowing." They had nothing to do with self esteem or any sort of positive feeling about self. I am a rather vain person in real life and I have never gotten the concept of "self esteem." It is silly to me. Facts are I know myself and my ability. I know my family and my community and my culture. I have an appreciation for my ancestors and the legacy they have left for me, which includes the culture I was reared in. I am grateful for it and for them so unlike you, I know that black America has a shared culture since I have experienced it. You base your views on the subject on stereotypes and media perception and not what culture actually is - an historical, shared experience of a group of people.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 12-06-2017 at 02:14 PM..
Well, I do not think ancient Egypt had its roots in other African cultures or people.
When I say Africa, I mean sub-Saharan Africa, black Africa or whatever you want to call it. I do not mean the Maghreb or North Africa, which Egypt belongs to, and which is Mediterranean.
I don't see that "pattern", your grandmother was naive and a racist.
No idea why you keep putting words into my mouth. I didn't say anywhere that Europeans are or were superior or better. All I am saying is that white and Asian civilizations were and are more advanced, for all kinds of reasons. But not reasons that you keep putting into my mouth. I have never said that the African inferiority in terms of culture is the result of an inferiority of Africans as humans. As I said before, in my view black Africans are born just as capable as whites or Asians. What happens after birth is a different story, again for all kinds of reasons, none of which are racist, though.
Huh? I have an inferiority complex about Africans and people of African descent?! Your logic is beyond me...
I also disagree regarding self-esteem.
But really, let's agree to disagree. I am a bit tired of this pointless discussion. We will never agree, so why waste more time...
Well, I do not think ancient Egypt had its roots in other African cultures or people.
When I say Africa, I mean sub-Saharan Africa, black Africa or whatever you want to call it. I do not mean the Maghreb or North Africa, which Egypt belongs to, and which is Mediterranean.
I don't see that "pattern", your grandmother was naive and a racist.
No idea why you keep putting words into my mouth. I didn't say anywhere that Europeans are or were superior or better. All I am saying is that white and Asian civilizations were and are more advanced, for all kinds of reasons. But not reasons that you keep putting into my mouth. I have never said that the African inferiority in terms of culture is the result of an inferiority of Africans as humans. As I said before, in my view black Africans are born just as capable as whites or Asians. What happens after birth is a different story, again for all kinds of reasons, none of which are racist, though.
Huh? I have an inferiority complex about Africans and people of African descent?! Your logic is beyond me...
I also disagree regarding self-esteem.
But really, let's agree to disagree. I am a bit tired of this pointless discussion. We will never agree, so why waste more time...
LOL at you:
1 - Egypt is in Africa. It is not a part of the Mediterranean. It is on the continent of Africa so is therefore, African. Its roots are more African than any other culture/civilization in the world since it was an African civilization.
2 - All Africans are not "black" and south of and north of the Saharan desert there are Africans of a variety of shades of skin color....
3 - The blue is evidence of your adhering to the idea of black inferiority. I am using your own words and not putting anything in your mouth. You are giving it yourself. You admittedly don't know about all civilizations in their world (neither do I) so you cannot conclude any were/are more advanced.
4. - Again my comments started to you because you indicated that black Americans do not have a culture, a culture of which I was reared in and know about as a black American. You are ignorant about this, as you are of other ancient civilizations. Your ignorance on these subjects is your shortcoming because you can learn about them if you so desire, but you choose not to. You remind me of Franz Fanon's concept of cognitive dissonance (your comments about Egypt not being African....).
Quote:
Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are
presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new
evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is
extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it
is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.
1. Again, to most people African means black. That's why Americans of Egyptian, Libyan etc. ancestry are not African-Americans. They would strongly reject the notion of being African-American.
Yes, Egypt is part of the Mediterranean, even Portugal is, despite not even bordering on the Mediterranean Sea the way Egypt does.
2. So? The shade of brown does not change the fact that Negroid people are referred to as blacks. Just like whites include all shades of pale (not even white), from Indian to Scandinavian. Still, they are all considered white.
3. Again, I am open to surprises, but so far there has been no discovery yet that showed that any black African civilization was so advanced.
4. I said African-Americans did not have a COMMON culture for a long time. And the one that is supposedly there now is not one I would want to be part of if I were a black American.
Regarding your quote, the problem is that there IS no evidence to the contrary so far.
3. Again, I am open to surprises, but so far there has been no discovery yet that showed that any black African civilization was so advanced.
There can be exaggerations about how advance or backwards pre-colonial sub-Saharan Africans were. Pre-colonial sub-Saharan Africans didn't have writing other than Arabic and didn't engage in any scientific discoveries. But many cultures were known for trade and built their empires and kingdoms on trade. In fact Mansa Musa,one of the rulers of the Mali empire,became the richest person in history through trade.
"African gold and other goods reached Europe long before European traders reached Africa. From about AD 650 African goods made their way to Europe through the trade between West Africa and North Africa."
There can be exaggerations about how advance or backwards pre-colonial sub-Saharan Africans were. Pre-colonial sub-Saharan Africans didn't have writing other than Arabic and didn't engage in any scientific discoveries. But many cultures were known for trade and built their empires and kingdoms on trade. In fact Mansa Musa,one of the rulers of the Mali empire,became the richest person in history through trade.
"African gold and other goods reached Europe long before European traders reached Africa. From about AD 650 African goods made their way to Europe through the trade between West Africa and North Africa."
I was thinking more about the type of writing that would allow people to leave written records for people living below the Sahara. I haven't known of any written records that used Adinkra.
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